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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 2:44:38 GMT -5
I'm finding it hard to get a good berserk rage Vraes. All the other melee friendly chars. In the warrior and stealth roles have good crits without the prohibitive defensive impairment Vraes suffers from. Has anyone built a successful high level BR Vraes? This lack of unpenalized crit seems his only real weak point since he can get good move bonus to make up for his lack of range and is the best soak tank and good enough dodge tank besides no viable high crit.
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Post by En1gma on Oct 27, 2015 6:24:06 GMT -5
On a boost in, I went BR 6, BoS 1, CB2, and Phalanx 3.
Fyona went BA 2, Fervor 5, and SoC 5.
KJ went Shockwave 6, Ash 5, PfS 2.
Selen went Dual role with PS 5, DoS 1, and QsD 4
I'm super happy with BR and enjoying this run through.
Vraes went with 1h Spear and shield. High accuracy + reliable damage bands = fantastic base for a BR build. All the bonus damage does is improve him, not detract from him by widening an already large damage band esp from maces.
Fervor adds much needed armor since BR strips it away. RF will end up at 10, as will SoC.
PfS also helps harden Vraes, and adds resistances. Shockwave keeps enemies from hitting him in the first place, and will hit 10. FS will come into play before the CoD so he can deal some damage at range.
Selen will work on DoS and QsD for melee viability, while stripping AP.
The entire group is built around ensuring Vraes never misses a hit. What isn't set around that is improving his soak (+everyone else's) so they can stand their ground whole Vraes gets to work.
On a fully stripped enemy, Vraes hits for 60 consistently, crits around 200 at 20% and has a +23 damage bonus. I wouldn't touch BR until way later, but gear and Burning Blades can help immensely with improving his crit chances.
Hope any of this helps, good luck!!
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Post by Cory Trese on Oct 27, 2015 8:22:59 GMT -5
En1gma ... awesome answer, Captain. This is a better analysis than I was prepare to post. Thank you for this!
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 13:00:23 GMT -5
Is it worth doubling his attacks with a 1ap blade like the sai sword? On a dodge, phalanx BR vraes...
Edit: lemme do the math:
sai sword= 20 +d4 =22.5 avg. +d14 dmg. BR 5=30 dmg avg. +(*2.5 avg. dmg. From crits =75 *15%=11.25) =41.25 x 7 attacks =288.75 avg. dmg. per round (san soak) if all hit.
spear =24+d18 =33.5 avg. +d14=41 +(41x2.5x15%)=56.375x3=169.125 avg dmg per round max before soak.
for soak 288.75-169.125=119.625/7=17 which is greater than the avg. dmg. diff per strike by 2, so in this one case it could work, but the extra hit% of the spear may make up that diff. with a higher hit rate. Hmm... So close after all.
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Post by fallen on Oct 27, 2015 13:14:42 GMT -5
Is it worth doubling his attacks with a 1ap blade like the sai sword? On a dodge, phalanx BR vraes... Thing is, Criticals are good because of high damage. If you take away a high damage weapon ... the multiplier is not going to swing in your favor. My preference is a 2 AP weapon -- but maybe 1 AP would be a sweet spot, I've never tried  |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on Oct 27, 2015 13:23:07 GMT -5
En1gma Oh boy yet another build idea for our favorite group of four heroes... I would do it a bit differently, but that's from my prospective of nightmare and natural lvling. Let's see Aiming for lvl 12 Vraes BOS 1 PhS 5 BR 1 Use 1 handed sword for their parry value. Fyona BA 2, COD 2, SOC 3, RF 1 KJ, CA 5, FB 3, BB 1 Selen PS 5, QSD 1, DOS 1 Continue lvling from there with a Plan for Vraes to increase both BR and PhS Fyona is going to be the most spread out At 18 a point in Reckoning. continued lvling of SOC+RF+COD and eventually 2 more points in BA KJ is going to work towards CA 10 and FB 10 Selen will work on QSD/DOS and branch into Punishing blades (long-view) Split leveling of Bows/blades and DEX->16
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 14:04:39 GMT -5
Is it worth doubling his attacks with a 1ap blade like the sai sword? On a dodge, phalanx BR vraes... Thing is, Criticals are good because of high damage. If you take away a high damage weapon ... the multiplier is not going to swing in your favor. My preference is a 2 AP weapon -- but maybe 1 AP would be a sweet spot, I've never tried If my math is right in the post above they are pretty close dmg per round after all things considered. However... 1ap are more costly sp wise with empowered attacks. They are also likely to have lower acc and/parry per damage after soak. They still may give a defensible solution for a dex based attack for Vraes due to the bonus dodge to help by-pass BR vulnerability, especially if empowered attacks arn't used, though crits shine best with empowered attacks too. In total I think 2-3ap are probably better in most, though not all cases. |
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Post by En1gma on Oct 27, 2015 14:08:09 GMT -5
Agreed- don't forget about overcoming soak too. 1AP weapons have major issues with this against anything with armor, even once Ash is applied...
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 14:25:40 GMT -5
Agreed- don't forget about overcoming soak too. 1AP weapons have major issues with this against anything with armor, even once Ash is applied... I took that into account in the editted post above, see the 17 average diff. Over the 7 attacks is greater than the 15 greater dmg of the spear vs sai sword in the example above. In total due to the spear greater acc and parry combo they a very close with only a tiny edge to the spear imo. But if you wanna go dex instead of str for extra defense the sai sword actually takes it by a smidge. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 17:11:15 GMT -5
On a boost in, I went BR 6, BoS 1, CB2, and Phalanx 3. Fyona went BA 2, Fervor 5, and SoC 5. KJ went Shockwave 6, Ash 5, PfS 2. Selen went Dual role with PS 5, DoS 1, and QsD 4 ... The entire group is built around ensuring Vraes never misses a hit. What isn't set around that is improving his soak (+everyone else's) so they can stand their ground whole Vraes gets to work. On a fully stripped enemy, Vraes hits for 60 consistently, crits around 200 at 20% and has a +23 damage bonus. I wouldn't touch BR until way later, but gear and Burning Blades can help immensely with improving his crit chances. Hope any of this helps, good luck!! That does help some, next question I have is do you prefer using him to run thru and hit the archers first, at least the ones on the perimeter while the rest of the team preps the melee group for him, minimizing his engagement with melee at first or kill the melee group and allow phalanx to block the arrows until melee are taken care of? |
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BR vraes
Oct 27, 2015 18:27:22 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by CdrPlatypus on Oct 27, 2015 18:27:22 GMT -5
Myself I hit ranged first depending on battlefield conditions. There are times when someone else needs to die first though.
My kill order is spawners(necromancer, forged spider) > shamans > off targeting archers > healers (war troll) > high mobile (beserker / wolves)
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 27, 2015 20:26:56 GMT -5
Myself I hit ranged first depending on battlefield conditions. There are times when someone else needs to die first though. My kill order is spawners(necromancer, forged spider) > shamans > off targeting archers > healers (war troll) > high mobile (beserker / wolves) Thanks, that all makes sense for most cases. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Oct 27, 2015 21:23:42 GMT -5
I prefer 2 AP weapons with BR Vraes, almost always with a Shield for my Nightmare Builds.
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Post by En1gma on Oct 27, 2015 22:52:07 GMT -5
Agree with gundy as usual.
While archers are the first to fall, they aren't usually the focus of my front line fighters. For this particular setup, I would use Vraes against the high value melee targets, as he can bring them down quickly. The archers I focus my ranged fire upon to take them out with superiority. Remember with Phalanx, V will be blocking quite a few arrows/spells, so I'm usually comfortable leaving him in the line of fire. This becomes more troublesome as you increase your difficulty, however, so keep that in mind.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Oct 28, 2015 16:43:14 GMT -5
I'll be looking at somewhere between yours and gundam's build next play thru, Enig, with minor tweaking need for my own tactical learning. Thanks for the help all. |
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