|
|
Post by John Robinson on Dec 16, 2015 16:29:27 GMT -5
Tamilin can equip thrown knives in the main hand slot, currently Kincaid cannot. This makes it tough for him to reach his full potential.
1. Kincaid is a Dexterity based character not Strength like Vraes. He will derive his greatest accuracy from Dexterity based weapons. If he is just going to dual wield light blades and not
use his Darting Steel talent this works out fine.
2. He can also use 1-H swords, but can only equip them in his main hand. To increase his melee accuracy he would need to invest allot of points into Strength cutting into points he could use for Dexterity or Constitution. This is unfortunate because thrown knives are dexterity based weapons.
3. Darting Steel. Until the recent changes with Tamilin. Using a thrown weapon was a unique feature only available with the Kincaid IAP character.
4. Why is this important? He cannot use Darting Steel on an adjacent enemy. He loses accuracy with a Strength based weapon. When attacking an adjacent enemy he will be able to inflict more damage duel wielding. One light blade inflicts less damage than two light blades. So being able to use a knife in his main hand and a 1-H sword in his off hand allows him to compensate for this loss in damage and accuracy duel wielding light blades provides. Being unable to use his throwing knives against the target next to him is like fighting with one hand tied behind his back.
5. The best of both worlds is to allow Darting Steel to hit adjacent targets, provide it with a wedge shaped AOE and allow throwing knives to be equipped in the main hand. In chapter 3 and 4 Kincaid will be completely surrounded. Examples; facing the ice monsters, skeletons and swarms of ghouls. Improving Tamilin is great. Compensating for her weaknesses should not invalidate Kincaid's needs. He needs throwing knives in the main hand, adjacent target and AOE just as much as she does.
|
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 16:42:48 GMT -5
John Robinson - the argument that is most interesting to me is allowing Kincaid to throw daggers at 1 range. I am not sure I understand the "main hand" argument unless you are suggesting that Kincaid should be able to dual wield a throwing dagger + <something else>. As far as I can tell, Kincaid is a well-balanced and very powerful character. The change to Tamilin does not invalidate him. EDIT: I love the discussion, so please, I'd love to hear from others too.
|
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 16:52:38 GMT -5
Also, one correction - Kincaid can equip a 1-H Sword in either hand, or both.
|
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 16, 2015 17:02:06 GMT -5
I have been advocating for DS to receive an AoE for ages now, and it seems that having Tamilin being as powerful as she just became, Kincaid should reap some of the benefits as well.
I don't mind moving with Kincaid to throw a TK, but the big thing here is the AoE. DS is a great curse, but has been completely overshadowed by Torrent. AoE would instantly level the playing field and provide a much better experience.
Being who they are, it makes sense that the Dex characters who CAN use the TK have comparable skills with them.
All in all- I'm fine with moving Kincaid to throw, though I wouldn't mind one bit of it were changed to 1 range. For DS to compete in any way with Torrent, AoE needs to be added.
|
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 16, 2015 17:10:34 GMT -5
On the other hand, however...
Kincaid is supposed to be the tactician, and should know better than to try to use TK 1 range combat. Also, he has the advantage of using Swords, which more than makes up for the fact that he can't use TK 1 range.
1 range for Tam makes more sense from a RP perspective: she is much smaller/faster than Kincaid, so I see her being able to quickstep and throw without giving up to much room. Kincaid isn't as fast, so the disadvantage is the loss of TK at that range.
|
|
|
|
Post by John Robinson on Dec 16, 2015 17:30:11 GMT -5
fallen I'm definitely not dissing Kincaid. I'm not looking to duel wield throwing knives. You didn't want Tamilin to get surrounded without a blade that's what I was referring to. If I understand it right. The weapon type in a character's main hand determines which attribute, strength vs dexterity gets applied to the whole attack. In other words no matter what combination of weapons you use the main hand determines the attribute that will be applied to attack accuracy. Being able to use a throwing knife in the main hand slot allows the dexterity attribute to be applied to attack accuracy. Using a 1-H sword in the main hand applies the strength attribute. Crap! I know I just making it more confusing trying to explain. I want to make better use of Darting Steel. You can build him with 2 light blades, or 1 light blade and a 1-H sword, 1 thrown blade +1 light blade, or 1 thrown blade + 1-H sword. So there is a Ratkin right next to him. Duel wielding with a light blade in the main hand will provide the most damage and allow dexterity to be applied to accuracy. What am I after? With the thrown knife in the main hand, I can get dexterity applied to the attack accuracy, and I can get the damage from a 1-H sword in the off hand. When you use Darting Steel you rely on 1 melee weapon and that's the way it should be. But when you do, you need to be able to increase the damage of that weapon higher than a light blade can provide, this is where 1-H swords come in. The main disadvantage is having to invest 16 attribute points into strength to get the best accuracy from the sword because it can only be equipped in the main hand. He is a dexterity type of guy? I want to really see how far Darting Steel can go without giving up melee accuracy and damage. Am I way off base? p.s. I would still like to see it turn into an AOE somewhere in the 10 ranks. Edit: For the short version see my reply to En1gma below
|
|
|
|
Post by John Robinson on Dec 16, 2015 17:42:45 GMT -5
On the other hand, however... Kincaid is supposed to be the tactician, and should know better than to try to use TK 1 range combat. Also, he has the advantage of using Swords, which more than makes up for the fact that he can't use TK 1 range. 1 range for Tam makes more sense from a RP perspective: she is much smaller/faster than Kincaid, so I see her being able to quickstep and throw without giving up to much room. Kincaid isn't as fast, so the disadvantage is the loss of TK at that range. I can't pick up and equip a throwing knife into the main hand. I want a dexterity based weapon in the main hand for accuracy and I want to use a 1-H sword for melee damage. I want to use Darting Steel(10) someday. I don't want to add points to strength. I want.. I want.. Whaaa! change my diaper  |
|
|
|
Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 16, 2015 17:49:52 GMT -5
This whole thing gets a new angle if str becomes +dmg... Then it would seem duel wielding or dex only becomes the even more obvious choice. Perhaps str could affect the TK range?
|
|
|
|
Post by John Robinson on Dec 16, 2015 17:54:14 GMT -5
This whole thing gets a new angle if str becomes +dmg... Then it would seem duel wielding or dex only becomes the even more obvious choice. Perhaps str could affect the TK range? Great Ideas! Would give him a reason to spend so many points into Strength. |
|
|
|
Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 16, 2015 17:57:23 GMT -5
My other thought is TKs could be equipped in one of the other 3 general item slots (ignoring #4 -armor)... Then you could duel wield and still have TKs near at hand for DS.
|
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 18:06:33 GMT -5
There won't be any change to the way the equipping of weapons work. It was expensive surgery to get Tamilin to use throwing knives in slot 1.
The Strength change is coming, so that will make an even more viable reason to use Kincaid with a 1-H Sword in the lead, as you'll only get the STR bonus if you are wielding a primary STR weapon.
I can see adding AoE in the high levels of TK.
|
|
|
|
Post by fallen on Dec 16, 2015 18:38:29 GMT -5
Ok, thx for the quick round of feedback. Looks like we'll get something like this out next week.
|
|
|
|
Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 16, 2015 18:41:04 GMT -5
Naturally, I knew better than having divergent thinking, but I'll likely keep on doing it. :-p Sorry fallen I'm hopeless. Great to hear clear confirmation on str gaining greater meaning to the game. |
|
|
|
Post by En1gma on Dec 16, 2015 18:56:46 GMT -5
By rank 4, 6 at the very latest, I think DS should gain a level of AoE... Once it gets past this point, the Talent Point Allocation becomes all the more costly, as he needs to work on his defenses and the Points come much slower than he needs to spend them. My w cents though, I'm sure whatever you decide on will be better than what he a has ATM  |
|
|
|
Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 16, 2015 19:14:59 GMT -5
1 ap blades combined with FU and TB/BB and -resistance from Tam, Vincent and/or Fyona, maybe -armor from Kjartan or Selen... Quite deadly already, even more so with AoE. Plus str primary weapon gains, so many powers to be smiling about. I see throwing knives everywhere and deadly strong hammer smashing coming my way! |
|
