What works for you - Elite / Content IAP / Unlocks?

[fallen]

Just out of curiosity. We've tried all of these across the games, and keep working to perfect our model. The only thing we never do is consumable IAPs and ads But you know that.

[En1gma]

I really liked the BF method. One time purchase and get everything else down the line. I kinda think this would be a good model to continue: just knowing that the app is completely paid for is great peace of mind, because i know that anything else coming down the line is just icing on the cake, not something else I'll need to pay for.

The free then buy-into makes sense to me, because they can do everything from the same app.

Elite+ optional content worked for me, but I know people have grumbled about needing to buy things (the four extra heroes) when they've already bought the game. The amount of effort you put into the added content needs monetary returns so it is what it is...

IAP in exchange for Unblockable content has been great for me because most games I'm shite at the higher difficulties and hate missing out on things because of it.

[fallen]

En1gma - thanks for weighing in ... these sound very much like the arguments we make in our own planning meetings

[matrim]

I personally like the free app tryout with iap. This is the model that got me hooked onto HoS and then every TB game I could get after that. I feel this model is key for reaching the most people.

[resistor]

My thoughts and feelings...

...on Free/Elite vs. one payed version - I don't like to spend money when I'm uncertain if it's a product I want or not. I never would have bought STRPG Elite, or subsequently backed ST2 Kickstarter, if there wasn't a free version of STRPG for me to try. I'm very much in favor of having a free version of games.

...on optional content IAPs - I'm kind of lukewarm on this. The only one I bought was the ship designer for STRPG, and that was actually a little disappointing in some ways. It kind of took some of the magic out of the game, since it used to be that every ship available to purchase in a Stardock seemed unique with its own tradeoffs compared to the others, but since I can make a ship that is just better for my purposes in pretty much every way to anything in the Stardock, those ships don't look unique anymore, they just look like numbers. On the other hand, if I want a ship with certain specifications that just can't be found in a Stardock, the Ship Designer can come in handy.

...on cosmetic IAPs - I'm lukewarm on this too. I don't buy them, but I don't have anything against them either. On one hand they take up time and effort the TBs could be using for developing things that I'd find more interesting, on the other hand they might bring them a lot of profit so they could create more interesting things.

...on "shortcut" IAPs - I'm in favor of these, and I think they are great for other kinds of people. I don't buy them, but they seem like (and I might be wrong about this) they are easy and quick to create relative to the amount of profit they must be bringing in.

[fallen]

May 13, 2016 14:32:07 GMT -5 resistor said:

...on optional content IAPs - I'm kind of lukewarm on this. The only one I bought was the ship designer for STRPG, and that was actually a little disappointing in some ways. It kind of took some of the magic out of the game, since it used to be that every ship available to purchase in a Stardock seemed unique with its own tradeoffs compared to the others, but since I can make a ship that is just better for my purposes in pretty much every way to anything in the Stardock, those ships don't look unique anymore, they just look like numbers. On the other hand, if I want a ship with certain specifications that just can't be found in a Stardock, the Ship Designer can come in handy.

I used the Ship Designer as a random example, but what do you think of other examples of this pricing model? Alternate characters in Heroes, for example?

[xdesperado]

The one time purchase of everything like BF sort of worries me for a few reasons.
First even $9.99 can be a stretch for many people with limited incomes like students or the disabled, because of this they might shy away from purchasing the game if they're not already TB fans.
Second is long term development. If the game doesn't get strong support early on then there might be little incentive to continue developing additional content.
Third and related to the second is potential loss of profit long term. While your still developing additional content for BF, at some point you'll need to take a hard look at the financial picture and decide if business wise it might be better to develop BF2 for new stuff and continued revenue stream or if that initial purchase still justifies your continued time and effort.
An Elite+potential IAP seems a better option for TB in a business sense as you can use the IAPs in future to help reinvigorate the game.

Really I think STRPG gets the whole thing about right.
Free version gives people a solid introduction to game letting them experience it. Elite version includes so much additional content that anyone who's already hooked by the free version doesn't feel cheated by the purchase. The IAPs help to keep the game fresh even after years on market.

Since you never do consumable IAPs the ones you do add value in one way or another to the buyers game play which extends the life of the game for the buyer and continues generating additional revenue for TB.

As for cosmetic IAPs, think you'd need to do some seperate study on your market and if their is enough interest in buying them to justify the cost to create. I know some people love having cosmetic options in games which don't affect the actual gameplay in any way but, especially as single player games I'm not sure the demand for them is large enough to be profitable.

Unlock IAPs are great for those with more limited time who want to play with the best toys, and those that don't enjoy playing games at the harder difficulties. Honestly I bought the STRPG unlock and love it, many of the achievements I had never come close to even after playing game for years simply because they required me to do stuff I simply don't enjoy doing in game. (I don't explore/harvest, making me try to get the achievements for exploration is like asking a pig to fly )

[fallen]

xdesperado - thanks for the feedback! Interesting perspectives, and an informative read. We've been over this ground so many times, we've said all these things, it is refreshing to hear them said in another way

EDIT: I should shut up, I'm ruining the poll

To share my thoughts:

Part of the changing model (toward BF all-in) is related to our change in how we release games. We will no longer release unfinished games. BF was done the day it hit the markets. Everything after that has been icing on the cake and extra bonus for anyone who bought in at any point. While I can see your argument about the "loss of profit longterm" I think if you compare the BF model to something like Heroes, you can see that by finishing the game and releasing it under a single price, we've completely freed ourselves of any requirement of continued development or planning huge content expansions in the following months. Has that stopped us from expanding the game? Definitely not, and those expansion continually re-invigorate the base and to share our unique way of doing "fair business." IAPs always involve months of new investment (in Heroes, 3 years running) and come with a price of asking our community to pay again and undercuts our "fair" business model. In addition, after launch IAPs always have a significantly lower return-on-investment for the months of work. Do we have to eventually take that same hard look at every game regardless of its potential future IAP landscape -- yes. See, Cyber Knights.

In summary tho -- making finished games doesn't force any of the models. BF was nearly broken out into 3 IAPs at launch. We decided to try something new, and it's worked wonderfully. That said, a locked down demo version will appear eventually.

Cosmetics - we completely agree. From what we can see, there is very little interest. Low-fi, single player games ... not the best field for cosmetics.

Unlocks - definitely a winner, and almost everyone can either agree that they love them, or agree that they understand that someone else will love them

[xdesperado]

fallen, I'm in complete agreement with you as far as delivering a "finished product" at launch.
What concerns me is the statement about there never being any IAP.
We your fans love your commitment to delivering a great gamming experience. However, that said we also realize your trying to make a business that will support you and allow you to keep creating even more awesome games.
For years you said there would never be IAP for STRPG, eventually you did give us some and at least in my opinion were well worth the cost.
Think Heroes is a bit of a special case. Your overall campaign is just so massive that realistically without a dozen more people working on it you'd never have been able to put it out as a single "complete game" in a reasonable timeframe.
The much much shorter campaign in BF allowed you to deliver the whole thing in a timely fashion. All the extras you've given us since then and have planned are just icing on the cake so to speak. That said I'd hate to see you a year down the road from now be kicking your selves over the no IAP promise. I know you've talked of adding at least 3 new classes, plus the skirmish stuff and who knows what ever else.
We've got a complete game now that was well worth the $10 payed for it. I don't think it would be seen as unreasonable for you in future to offer an IAP with new classes, additional maps/missions or even a second campaign.
Hopefully ST2 will be an even much bigger hit than BF is and will allow you to bring on some additional sock puppets(employees) who can help you continue to evolve and grow while maintaining the same level of excellence and close contact with your gaming community. Think the two of you are likely getting close to the limits of how much you can do on your own without something suffering.

[En1gma]

fallen : Cosmetics are one of the things I really like to buy-- I can never have enough ship designs for ST4X or faces in BF.

Please consider these, as I would always pay for added customization  

[resistor]

May 13, 2016 14:44:54 GMT -5 fallen said:

May 13, 2016 14:32:07 GMT -5 resistor said:

...optional content IAPs - I'm kind of lukewarm on this. The only one I bought was the ship designer for STRPG, and that was actually a little disappointing in some ways... blah blah blah...

I used the Ship Designer as a random example, but what do you think of other examples of this pricing model? Alternate characters in Heroes, for example?

I actually haven't bought HoS. I've played the free version, and decided I wanted to get HoS eventually, but there hasn't been a very convenient time yet. So here's my thoughts from what I think I know about HoS alternate characters.

I would certainly not buy them on my first playthrough of the game, because all the characters are new, it would make more sense to use the starting characters rather then buying different new ones. I might buy alt characters on subsequent playthroughs, but what could largely influence how likely I am to buy, and how many I would buy, is if the alt characters have different dialogue and conversations with the other characters then the starting types of their class. The reason that would be a large factor is that I remember thinking their conversations were interesting and wondered how it would play out differently if some were alt characters. Also, because I can level up a character in different ways for them to fulfill different roles, I wouldn't think I'd need to purchase an alt character to experience different playstyles or dynamics within the squad, so there goes that selling point.

[fallen]

resistor - thanks for sharing the extra details. Hope you try out Heroes one day, a personal favorite of mine

[fallen]

xdesperado - great feedback and thanks for engaging in the discussion with me. I am not sure (simply can't remember) if we ever publicly said there would be no IAPs for ST RPG Elite ... it was our first IAP ever, so I don't know if we were ever talking about it at all at the time. We've tried something a little different with each of our games, and so far, the BF model has not done us wrong, but that is likely from a combination of many, many factors.

And, we're very likely to try something else with Star Traders 2. Thanks for sharing!

[John Robinson]

fallen

Wow! How do you narrow it down to a single solution?  

The size of the game should have some impact on the cost:  If you had waited to release a finished version of HoS it still wouldn't be available for purchase.  I think the "Free try before you buy" is not a good strategy.  Even Bigfish games only lets you do that for 1 hour and they sell a ton of games.  First impressions have a big impact on reviews.  A limited free version leads to inaccurate game reviews. You will see allot of reviews on Bigfish written after a one hour trial that are negative, then later great reviews from people who purchased and played the full version.  The temptation to produce smaller finished games might cramp your style when you start creating Legends of Steel.

IAPs:  I've never felt ripped off.  Your IAPs have added great value for a small price.  In HoS the 4 new characters are worth every penny.  Boost-in is a stroke of genius!  Especially as HoS comes to a close, I would get migraines, and nose bleeds having to start from scratch then work my way up to level 64.

ST-2 One Price gets all content in perpetuity:  In my opinion this is a terrible mistake. ST-2 is going to be with you for years after release.  The universe is expanding not contracting.  Releasing it on Steam first is wonderful.  I think, You must develop DLC content on Steam.  DLC is the standard for releasing new optional content, and accepted by the Steam community.  For tablet/mobile versions one idea that might work:  After a large amount of optional content has amassed offer a "Collector's Addition" of the game that includes not only new game features but artwork, music, professionally formatted game manual, or even throw in a copy of the ST comic book.  The Collector's Addition should be more expensive than the regular version.  If sales go through the roof you may decide someday to add Multi-player are you still willing to charge the same price?  I sure wouldn't.

Track Record:  Awesome games!  I'ts almost like you feel guilty charging more for creating large expansions to existing games, what are you crazy?  Like En1gma I have played 2 Trese Bros games heavily but own all of them and all IAP content.  Someday I'm going to get around to playing them all.  I have never done that with any other developer's games.  Where the heck else am I going to get this quality at these prices?  Do you realize that some Atari-800 game cartridges produced in the 70's cost more than what you charge for a 21st century game?  Geez what am I going to do with you two! 


My Vote: #2 Elite +IAP with game unlocks as an optional IAP (#4).  P.S.  These guys put the games on sale all the time, so that should offset some cost concerns.

[Someone]

Try before I buy is generally essential for most mobile games, at least until I know the developers are trust worthy, then I might buy another game by the same devs without a trial version. The exceptions for my family is digital board games and educational games for the kids.

Me, I got an Amazon free app of the day (back when they did that) of HoS, consequently bought all the iap and most your other games. The particular trial versions might not have been enough content to test though without that FAotD. (The fight outside of Oskahold grabbed me, not before that for HoS).

I'm fine with BF method on steam, if their are meaningful reviews, but would want a hefty trial on mobile if I didn't already know your games.

I'm fine with extra character purchases as suggested, but 99cent is way more likely for me to buy than $2 plus. Being able to get all of them at once for a small discount even more likely to be bought.

Cosmetics only mean to me "buy the devs coffee" - Possible exception being humorous items, or themeing items as a group e.g. Asian weapons and armor in addition to or instead of western. They're even better as real content packs though or high res texture packages or whatever. I'd buy the HoS game over again making tongue in cheek fun of itself as Heroes of Plastic ... probably not worth the time for you guys tho.

A support the devs consumable iap is fine as an alternative to patreon, but other arcade quarter suck like gimmicks and timers are of course a sure fire way for me to quick the whole company of games.

Ads are never even meaningfully looked at by me, just a stupid accidental click away from the game nuisance. I tolerate them in some free games if they're not too intrusive.

Episodic content works ok too, but the content to price has to really work. Really short, a buck, longer more feature packed $3-5 may work.