Team "I'm not very good, but I play on Nightmare"

[jhakir]

Hello all,

Long time lurker, more or less first time poster here.

Ever since I picked the game up and started to stalk the forums, I was always drawn towards the debates on Vraes vs Kincaid, and armor vs avoidance. It was clear that we had lots of resources for the Kincaid and avoidance camp, but there wasn't a whole lot of information on the Vraes and armor side of things.

So, being obsessive compulsive Engineer that I am, I decided to go spend some time on the armor side of things. I also wanted to see if it was possible to get a durable Vraes with bersker rage.

Boy was I pleased. Over all this party sailed through content, and when they didn't, it was usually my fault. Or because the enemies scaled funny and were 8+ levels higher than me in very small sections of the game. Or just because I'm not very good at this whole 'strategy' thing. Take your pick.

I've listed gear in my party summary, but don't assume those are the best options, or the options I was using all the time. I would frequently swap out gear based off of the type of enemies I was fighting.

Orcin caused me to throw on more accuracy gear

Krete, Ratkin, and early/mid CoD had me throw on defensive gear

Vorata and our new friends in E4 had me throw on mostly damage gear

I also found myself for most of the game with 3MP on all my characters. Rarely did I actually NEED all this MP, so I frequently used it to swap out an accessory or two as the fight progressed.

Anyways, here it goes:

This wirte up will be broken down into 4 sections:

Section 1: The Party: Attributes, Skills, Talents, Gear
Section 2: Progression and Analysis
Section 3: A note on Respecs

Section 1: The party

NOTES: All stat summaries are fully buffed. All Armor values have Toughness included. All Resistances have Resistance added in. Offensive summary is of a basic melee attack, except for Kjartan's case, which is of Immolation - the only offensive action he uses.

Vraes

Level: 52
HP: 2117
SP: 406
Stats: 16 STR / 4 DEX / 16 CON / 5 WIL / 9 INT / 4 KNO
Skills: 16 Polearms / 15 Leadership / 14 Lore
Talents: Phalanx Shield 10 / Stone Skin 10 / Berserker Rage 10 / Juggernaut 5


Defenses:
314 Armor, 48 Parry, 13 Dodge, 66% Auto Block, 43 Elemental Res, 30 Earth Res, 19 Unholy Res

Basic Attack Summary:
113-252 Dmg, 50% Crit, +264% Crit Dmg, +16 Fire, +16 Lightning, +12 Earth Dmg


Equipment:

Main Hand:
Boar Spear (3AP)
12 Accuracy, 13 Parry
97-148 Dmg
+16 Earth Dmg, +12 Earth Dmg, 8% Critical, +44% Critical Dmg, +4% SP Drain

Off Hand:
Fate's Dance Shield
11 Parry
Auto Blocks 14% of Ranged attacks: +2 Parry, +16 Armor

Armor:
Juggernaut Plate (Heavy)
182 Armor
-8 Evasion, -2 Accuracy
+ 1 Move Point, +325 HP, +16 Dmg, +60% Crit Dmg, +8% SP Drain

Accessory 1:
Behemoth Amulet
+3 Accuracy, +100% Crit Dmg

Accessory 2:
Bracers of Giant Strength
+8 Melee Accuracy, +42 Dmg, 4% Critical

Accessory 3:
Golden Promise
2% Critical, +10% Crit Dmg, +4 Parry, +4 Dodge, +12 Armor

Kjartan
Level: 52
HP: 956
SP: 868
Stats: 3 STR / 4 DEX / 16 CON / 7 WIL / 8 INT / 16 KNO
Skills: 4 Polearms / 20 Sorcery / 15 Conjuring / 3 Lore
Talents: Choking Ash 10 / Pureflame Shield 10 / Immolation 10 / Burning Blades 5 / Firestorm 1


Defenses:
110 Armor, 20 Parry, 10 Dodge, 52 Elemental Res, 30 Unholy Res

Immolation Attack Summary:
81-201 Fire Dmg, 7% Crit


Equipment:

Main Hand:
Ferris-Strike Rod (2 AP)
7 Accuracy, 8 Parry
44-53 Dmg
+120 Max HP, +14% SP Drain


Armor:
Robes of the Fourth Circle
48 Armor
+2 Evasion
+ 1 Move Point, +3 Ranged Accuracy, +8 Dmg

Accessory 1:
Mantle of the Seer
+12 Ranged Accuracy, +22 Dmg, +10% Crit Dmg

Accessory 2:
Thief's Hand
+6 Ranged Accuracy, +12% SP Drain

Accessory 3:
Lone Torc
+4 Ranged Accuracy, 2% Critical, +6% SP Drain



Fyona
Level: 52
HP: 1788
SP: 586
Stats: 16 STR / 4 DEX / 16 CON / 6 WIL / 7 INT / 5 KNO
Skills: 20 Hammers / 2 Invocation / 3 Leadership / 17 Lore
Talents: Shield of Cortias 10 / Righteous Fervor 10 / Blessed Aura 8 / Reckoning 6 / Battlefield Devotion 1


Defenses:
234 Armor, 39 Parry, 19 Dodge, 42% Auto-block, 47 Elemental Res, 26 Unholy Res

Basic Attack Summary:
87-160 Dmg, 9% Critical, +50% Crit Dmg, +16 Fire, +14 Earth Dmg


Equipment:

Main Hand:
Keen Warhammer (2 AP)
7 Accuracy, 5 Parry
71-102 Dmg
+14 Earth Dmg, +6% SP Drain

Off Hand:
Eight Aegis
13 Parry
42% Auto-block, +220 Max HP, +120 Max SP, +40% Crit Dmg, +16 Armor


Armor:
Knight's Chain
110 Armor
-7 Evasion
+ 1 Move Point, +240 Max HP, +16 Dmg, +4% SP Drain

Accessory 1:
Astrologer's Tread
+6 Parry, +6 Dodge, +22 Armor

Accessory 2:
Bracers of Giant Strength
+8 Melee Accuracy, +42 Dmg, 4% Critical

Accessory 3:
Golden Promise
2% Critical, +10% Crit Dmg, +4 Parry, +4 Dodge, +12 Armor


Selen
Level: 52
HP: 1228
SP: 738
Stats: 5 STR / 16 DEX / 16 CON / 7 WIL / 6 INT / 4 KNO
Skills: 13 Blades / 20 Bows / 10 Lore / 2 Security / 10 Stealth
Talents: Pinning Shot 10 / Sly Look 4 / Dance of Shadows 10 / Quicksilver Defense 10


Defenses:
166 Armor, 40 Parry, 39 Dodge, 43 Elemental Res, 21 Unholy Res

Basic Attack Summary:
121-194 Dmg, 39% Critical, +16 Fire


Equipment:

Main Hand:
Keen Tulwar (1 AP)
7 Accuracy, 8 Parry
36-51 Dmg
+12 Lightning Dmg

Off Hand:
Bolter (3 AP)
12 Accuracy
121-166 Dmg at 7 Range


Armor:
Fremat Sea Scales
96 Armor
-3 Stealth
+ 1 Move Point, +240 Max HP, +16 Dmg, +4% SP Drain

Accessory 1:
Wise Blood Ring
10% Critical, +5 Parry, +5 Dodge, +10 Stealth, +10 Security

Accessory 2:
Pendant of Scrying
+260 Max SP, 4% Critical, +12% SP Drain

Accessory 3:
Step of Vastness
+8 Accuracy, +20 Dmg, +6% Critical


Section 2: Progression and Analysis

Vraes:
STR 16 => Con 16 => Your Choice. I like INT as a buffer for when I don't see a crit for a few rounds.
Spears 20 => Balance Leadership and Lore
PS 10 => SS 10 => BR 10 => Empowered attack of choice

Kjartan:
Con 16 => KNO 16
Conjuring 9 => Sorcery 20 => Conjuring 20
PfS and CA to 10 more or less in tandem => Immolation 10 => Burning Blades. Focus mostly on Pfs when Selene is leveling Pinning Shot. I picked up 1 point in Firestorm at 18 for the times where he could attack and not curse.

Fyona:
Alternate STR/CON to 16 => Your choice. I like Int.
Leadership 3 => Hammers 16 (Save points for 18 and 20) => Lore 20
Shield of Cortias until Righteous Fervor. Max RF. Pick up some points in Blessed Aura for CoD, then back to SoC. Then balance Blessed Aura / Reckoning as needed. Grab 1 point in Battlefield Devotion and Reckoning when they are available.

Selene:
Dex 16 => Con 16
Bows 20 => Blades 10 => Stealth 10 => Blades and Lore
Pinning Shot 5 => Dance of Shadows 10 => Sly Look 4 => Pinning Shot 10 / Quicksilver Defense 10. Pick up 1 point in Quicksilver Defense and Dance of Shadows early. A second point in Sly Look early on goes a very long way.


Balancing Offensive and Defensive Progression:


Points in PfS/Shield/RF build a solid mitigation base for the party. Building STR/DEX and Pinning Shot early will cover your damage/accuracy/avoidance needs.

Once your STR/DEX are built up, most of your mitigation talents are finished. CON then takes over to buffer against bad rolls and to further increase toughness across the board. Vraes continues to build up an incredible level of mitigation, auto blocking, and temporary hit points. His now max STR plus those beautiful spears will provide a reliable source of respectable damage. Accuracy and damage will continue to come from Choking Ash. Selene starts to become your power hitter once DoS starts providing reliable crits.

General Analysis:

For most fights no defensive gear is necessary, and damage gear can speed things up. When needed (Orcin Warlords, etc) swapping to defensive gear will make him nigh immortal. Feel free to keep the defensive gear on through all of CoD. Enemy mitigation is nonexistent, and most mobs are easy to hit. They do, however, hit for an absurd amount.

Also of note is the fact that, for the most part, you can ignore dodge on Vraes (and to a lesser extent Fyona). Enemies that aren't very accurate usually don't do enough damage to break through your mitigation and temporary HP. Enemies that ARE very accurate will usually hit regardless of dodge level in this group. This means you prefer the Parry/Armor accessory over the parry/dodge accessory.

Your party should now have a comfortable amount of health, armor, and resistances. In fact, very little in the Underforge should have even been able to touch you. Just the really scary mobs that are always really scary and require special attention (read: throw an Outlander at them and have everyone mop up the easy things). The newly revamped krete and most Orcin should also fall under this category as well. Wolf type mobs can be a bit scary if left unchecked, but they still die fast. Troll type mobs look scary, but really your group should have so much parry at this point that you shouldn't be too worried about them. They may just take a few rounds to kill.

Once your mitigation is all built up (PfS/Rf/Soc/CON), accuracy and damage are beginning to become an issue. Shore up your accuracy by throwing more points into Pinning Shot - I found I needed to go all the way to 10, but by the time I did Selene had the SP to more or less use it 100% of the time. Mid to late game Immolation will give your party the crit boost they need to handle any damage checks.

City of the Dead is an odd beast, and is really the only reason that Blessed Aura exists in this build. As far as I can tell, there is no way to get around those 1AP Skeletal Archers. They're bloody accurate and deal an absurd amount of damage. Fortunately, the heartbeads of summer, a nice crafted shield, and some defensive/holy damage accessories turn Fyona into the backbone of the group. When you start to feel overwhelmed, allow 1 or 2 archers to stray onto each party member. The vast majority should still be on Vraes and Fyona. Fyona can then fall into a nice rhythm of one Blessed Aura and 2 hits of Reckoning each round. This will stem any bleeding from the archers Make sure Vraes has a balance of parry/armor gear and +holy damage gear and throw him at the summoners. It's okay if they don't die right away, because the archers don't really do much to him. He's got enough health that he can wade through them for several turns before you need to think about coming to help him. The other 3 can then act as a unit to clear out any stray threats, and then they can wade into the pile of summoned mobs together to help Vraes.

Once you're out of CoD, go straight for the Cortias fight. Finishing this will have a huge impact on your party. The armor for Vraes is what makes him so incredibly durable. It is also what allows you to build up Berserker rage without worrying about the defensive penalty. All that temporary health, armor, and resistances mean that he won't blow up as long as you pay half a mind to the pile you send him against. Bersker rage means that the big threat in the group doesn't last more than 2 rounds. It makes him perfect for taking out those incredibly dangerous enemies (summoners, those crab things that deal an absurd amount of ranged damage) and then go sit on the big thing (warlord, etc) before it gets to run rampant through the group.

The shield for Fyona is what keeps her able to wade in right behind him and handle any archers he can't get. Yes, the weapons are incredible, but crafting now lets you make suitable replacements for them. Especially since this group doesn't use strickening. The shield, however, has a unique 42% auto block. This is a game changer for letting Fyona sit near archers in the late game as well as melee. Leave the big melee mobs for Vraes, but most melee won't be able to do any lasting damage to Fyona either. Selene now has enough QSD to babysit Kjartan from any mobs trying to get to your flanks.

Section 3: A note on Respecs

I noticed that people don't like to plan their party around respecs, so that's why I didn't include them in this write up.

Since this was a group I was learning a lot of the game with, I certainly found myself respeccing in different parts of the game.

Examples:

Vraes:

Originally picked up 1 point in NM and BoS early on. Then, once I maxed out Phalanx and Stone Skin, I dumped my extra points into natural mastery until I knew I would be comfortable picking up berserker rage. Your timing of this may vary, but I found I wasn't comfortable with it until after I go this legendary armor.

Fyona:

I did an mid early respec in order to get a maxed RF. I found it very worth while. This let me then build blessed aura/SoC/Reckoning as needed based upon group needs.

Kjartan:
Early game he was all INT, CON, and polearms. It was wildly successful, since it meant that he was just a mana battery who could then melee the easy to hit mobs for a good amount of SP back at the tail end of the battle. It wasn't until immolation was actually useful did I respec him to have offensive stats.

I'm sure that more experienced players would find a way around all of this, though, so I didn't include it



Section 4: Improvements

I will be the first one to admit that I do not know this game as well as our local experts. This was not an Iron Man group, although I very quickly stopped dying to things that I would have known about if it wasn't my first time through a lot of the game. This means that there are quite a few ways to improve these characters, I'm sure.

One is with Strickening. I'm sure it is possible, and likely better, to use Strickening over Blessed Aura and to level burning blades earlier. I'm glad I had it for CoD, but after that I was swimming in potions to the point where it wasn't really necessary. I also wasn't experienced enough with balancing +Magic damage gear and my other needs. I found it much easier to ignore it and rely on +critical, +accuracy, and +defenses.

[jhakir]

Forums and I don't get along very well, so I'll be editing that in the near future to fix the glaring typos, duplicate headers, and awful formatting.

As an aside, events in the latest content release significantly impacted some of the build. I left that part out for now. That is the team up until that point.

[matrim]

Very interesting build. I am taking a similar group through (Tam instead of Selen). Some things I noted with the build that you can take or leave. The group clearly works as is though. I commend you, I always gave up on armour builds as my Vraes melted before Orc spears.

I personally would build Kjartan much more aggressive. With 3 tanks and being ranged, there is no way he should be getting hit. You could probably swap in a good damage staff and good elemental damage robes. Accessories should be damage too. Also with pinning shot handling accuracy concerns, consider a respec to drop Choking Ash and pick up burning blades and the new talent. Crit also works on accessories, he will be doing crazy damage.

Vraes may want to go sword or mace. From the sounds of the group, parry does not offer as much benefit as a higher damage band to clear tough mobs (this is the advantage of spears, higher parry and accuracy).

Selen being a tank might be overkill. New talent is awesome, no stealth losses and you can drop stealth and defensive gear and keep her ranged if you are concerned. However, she is an assassin with a good blade and all that crit Kjartan offers.

Now that skeletal archers are not a concern, consider dropping healing talents and levelling strickening. Let me tell you that you will be amazed at the damage increase.

Multiple playthroughs certainly let you have a looser defense than someone who has not gone though the game as much. This is a great build for first or second time nightmare ironmanners as they can handle lots of tough surprises. As you learn the ins and outs of the game you can start to trim some fat to squeeze out the most damage that you can. I really would love to see a video of how hard this group is hitting and getting hit end game.

[jhakir]

May 2, 2017 18:34:03 GMT -5 matrim said:

Very interesting build. I am taking a similar group through (Tam instead of Selen). Some things I noted with the build that you can take or leave. The group clearly works as is though. I commend you, I always gave up on armour builds as my Vraes melted before Orc spears.

I personally would build Kjartan much more aggressive. With 3 tanks and being ranged, there is no way he should be getting hit. You could probably swap in a good damage staff and good elemental damage robes. Accessories should be damage too. Also with pinning shot handling accuracy concerns, consider a respec to drop Choking Ash and pick up burning blades and the new talent. Crit also works on accessories, he will be doing crazy damage.

Vraes may want to go sword or mace. From the sounds of the group, parry does not offer as much benefit as a higher damage band to clear tough mobs (this is the advantage of spears, higher parry and accuracy).

Selen being a tank might be overkill. New talent is awesome, no stealth losses and you can drop stealth and defensive gear and keep her ranged if you are concerned. However, she is an assassin with a good blade and all that crit Kjartan offers.

Now that skeletal archers are not a concern, consider dropping healing talents and levelling strickening. Let me tell you that you will be amazed at the damage increase.

Multiple playthroughs certainly let you have a looser defense than someone who has not gone though the game as much. This is a great build for first or second time nightmare ironmanners as they can handle lots of tough surprises. As you learn the ins and outs of the game you can start to trim some fat to squeeze out the most damage that you can. I really would love to see a video of how hard this group is hitting and getting hit end game.

Interesting note - my first play through of this group had Tam instead of Selen. I found I was having huge melee accuracy issues without the -parry from Pinning Shot. I can't say I've noticed the lack of a -2 AP curse attack, but I sure do miss the lower SP requirements.

That's part of why I stuck with spears. I considered using swords, but never found anything worth making the switch for. I appreciate the absurd amount of accuracy and high base damage though, because frequently I sent Vraes out on his own and he's fighting a summoner of some sort that isn't debuffed at all. Knowing that he will connect without any debuffs is comforting.

I wasn't sure if I wanted to include the new talents in that discussion or not. I didn't want to spell them out and be all spoiler-y. I dropped QSD on Selen for the new talent. That's actually why she's in light armor. I didn't need the extra stealth.

Most of what you've said has been simmering in the back of my mind for a while. Healing was totally just there for those archers in Act 3. Any other time I put it to heavy use were times where I could have easily burned through some consumables.  She still has her respec, and I always planned on dropping it. Just never got around to it.

It's interesting that when we go back in and fight those same archers in the high 50's, their damage has dropped dramatically. At least I'm pretty sure there were some non champion archers in there this time around. Are they really intended to be as deadly as they are at the end of Act 3? The difference between them and the elite/champion archers is staggering.

I'm torn on dropping ash. I certainly don't need it for the -armor. With a 66% crit chance on Vraes and a 55% chance on Selene breaking through armor isn't really an issue; however, there are times where I find myself fighting mobs 8 levels higher instead of the general 6. Times like those mean that I need all the accuracy I can get. The perfect example was the level 60 Orcin Warlord I ran into right as I entered the last map available. At level 52, he was nigh impossible to hit. I wonder if strickening would add enough accuracy with the -dodge for melee to still hit. If it does, though, a respec of Kjartan and Fyona would cause his damage to skyrocket. 


 

[jhakir]

May 2, 2017 18:34:03 GMT -5 matrim said:

Multiple playthroughs certainly let you have a looser defense than someone who has not gone though the game as much. This is a great build for first or second time nightmare ironmanners as they can handle lots of tough surprises. As you learn the ins and outs of the game you can start to trim some fat to squeeze out the most damage that you can. I really would love to see a video of how hard this group is hitting and getting hit end game.

My two melee rarely take damage above 100 from anything. Skeletal Archers and the like only deal damage on about 1 out of every 5 that connect, and I've never seen one over 50. I would consistently let 1 or 2 archers sit on Kjartan for a few rounds without issue. 

I honestly can't remember what the weaver hit for, because she was completely anti-climactic. I sat Fyona and Vraes down in melee and on the rare time she connected, one aura got the person back up to full.

The last boss in the most recent episode was blasting Vraes for around 400 and Fyona for around 500. I saw one 800, but that was the only hit above that. I'm also not entirely sure what that attack counted as, since it never got auto-blocked or parried.

That +8 Orcin Warlord was hitting Vraes for around 300 a hit. It sounds like a lot and looked like a lot, but with 2,100 HP without any defensive accessories, it wasn't really threatening unless he wasn't cursed.

With the new talents, both Selen and Vraes were approaching the 2k mark for crits using 3AP weapons. It was actually making experience balancing an issue, because I had to have my heavy hitters stop at around 50% health or they would take the mob out.

I'll see if I can manage some video during the next release. I play on my phone, though, so it might prove difficult.

[Cory Trese]

That 8 levels of high diff scaling is fully intentional. We didn't way the game's difficult to be static throughout the game. We spent a lot of time and effort figuring out a player difficulty scaling system that generated game difficulty at variable rates across the game, and across repeated play throughs.