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Post by warhammer on May 11, 2018 13:28:12 GMT -5
Not sure if this is the best place for it, but this is a bit of feedback and I am sure some of the more experienced players will point out stuff I am missing.  Having played ST Elite Edition, I opted to play the BH template off the bat. I love the improvements and added depth to the game. The game looks gorgeous. I like the abilities and how they are used during ship combat. The impact missions can have on the world at large is brilliant, I wish more games had such an organic system. However, I do have some quibbles with regards to crew combat and the BH in general. I believe many new players will come to the game with a few thoughts in mind: 1) They will take their captain into crew combat 2) Their captain will be their strongest character 3) The base template will give you a decent character to be used as above The way the BH template is setup, the captain is not a good character to take into crew combat. Not only that, his quickness will not even allow him to use an ability every round if the player chooses certain abilities. For example, Hunter's Challenge looks like an interesting skill, but requiring 12 init, I have rarely been able to use it in combat due to the opposing crew's abilities knocking down my initiative. This leads me to not want to bring my captain on any missions that require crew combat. The other issue that compounds this, since most of the BH abilities are about crew combat, what good is it to follow they BH build path? I can just see new players coming in complaining about the game being broken because some skills are not useable, etc., etc. The other item, I would love to see BH's have some more skills for ship based combat. I love Tireless Pursuit and Red Badge as these are very thematic and useful abilities. I think the niche target for the BH should be a hybrid ship combat/crew combat build that may not do ship combat as well as a pirate, or crew combat as well as a soldier, but would allow your officer/captain to capture some of both in one job rather than 2 jobs. From a strict role play perspective, I the BH would be a part of every crew combat as he would want to make sure he was getting his target, he wouldn't want to send some flunky to do his work. All that said, having some more easy to find documentation would help. That said, being in product development myself, I realize this is EA and that will be coming as we near release as trying to keep documentation current while everything is being updated would be a nightmare. I will be trying a new game in which I do not use a template to create the captain and see if that plays any different. Great game so far, I am eager to see how it evolves as it moves through EA. |
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Post by fallen on May 11, 2018 14:05:21 GMT -5
warhammer - thanks for the feedback! Taking your captain into crew combat is a pretty dangerous endeavor. I can understand the expectation that you might want to do that, but building the default template for crew combat means that the default template is lacking if you don't. That's why they are default templates, made to be edited  Maybe we can find a way to indicate that somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions on the Talents. We'll definitely keep improving here and adding more. BH is a great Job, buts its best for the officer and captain because it packs the most punch when paired with other Jobs. What type of documentation are you finding lacking? I hope you will chose to leave a review!
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Post by tenbsmith on May 11, 2018 14:10:45 GMT -5
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Post by fallen on May 11, 2018 15:43:49 GMT -5
Agreed +1 |
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Post by warhammer on May 11, 2018 16:55:33 GMT -5
Yes, the info I can find is good, but I have to admit I am trying to also do this while not being spoiled either. Half the fun is seeing how things progress, failing, seeing a synergy you didn't see before and starting over and seeing how the new build works. |
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Post by warhammer on May 11, 2018 18:16:52 GMT -5
warhammer - thanks for the feedback! Taking your captain into crew combat is a pretty dangerous endeavor. I can understand the expectation that you might want to do that, but building the default template for crew combat means that the default template is lacking if you don't. That's why they are default templates, made to be edited Maybe we can find a way to indicate that somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions on the Talents. We'll definitely keep improving here and adding more. BH is a great Job, buts its best for the officer and captain because it packs the most punch when paired with other Jobs. What type of documentation are you finding lacking? I hope you will chose to leave a review! Understood. I always looked at ST (always a danger taking expectations from one game to another) as having Espionage, Trading, Pirate, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Military Officer as the primary roles. If I was a BH, I might also do some espionage roles, or MO jobs to help pay bills. If you were a Smuggler, you would do some exploring to get the cargo you wanted to smuggle. These choices would dictate your ships as a trader would take a ship with a larger hold than a smuggler would, as he would want something fast that could run a blockade or avoid searches. Pirates would differ from Smugglers and Traders with regard to how they were getting their cargo. Once acquired, they would act more like Smugglers to get into somewhere to trade the cargo. A MO would differ from a bounty hunter as you would focus on one faction to do jobs for, rather than looking for the best paying job, etc. Moving to STF, I want to play the same way, however, it is a different game. But the mindset that BH as a job is a secondary job, not a primary job is a bit of a mind bender to a new player. You really want to take Commander or something else as your primary job, even though your play style is going to be a BH. Its fine if that is a more advanced role, you do not want to spoon feed everything to the players, but I can see new players having the same disconnect. Maybe having a blurb about how BH is a job that synergizes with other jobs together to create a prestige class that is the BH. With regards to templates, agreed, they can be edited. However, many new players wanting to jump in are going to use a template as is for their first few games. I bounced this off my 13 year old, asked him how he would play given the starting screen with your captain, and he said he would just use a template off the bat. In any case, I will write a review at some point, I have a new captain to create!  EDIT: Almost for got, for the longest time I could not figure out the red/blue bar under the ships on the combat screen meant. The red bar I figured was a measure of current hull, the blue bar is active crew? I could not find anything on that. I did not see much about dice and how combat worked until I went to the wiki and spent half and hour looking through it. |
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Post by MintDragon on May 11, 2018 19:25:09 GMT -5
warhammer - thanks for the feedback! Taking your captain into crew combat is a pretty dangerous endeavor. I can understand the expectation that you might want to do that, but building the default template for crew combat means that the default template is lacking if you don't. That's why they are default templates, made to be edited Maybe we can find a way to indicate that somewhere. Thanks for the suggestions on the Talents. We'll definitely keep improving here and adding more. BH is a great Job, buts its best for the officer and captain because it packs the most punch when paired with other Jobs. What type of documentation are you finding lacking? I hope you will chose to leave a review! Understood. I always looked at ST (always a danger taking expectations from one game to another) as having Espionage, Trading, Pirate, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, and Military Officer as the primary roles. If I was a BH, I might also do some espionage roles, or MO jobs to help pay bills. If you were a Smuggler, you would do some exploring to get the cargo you wanted to smuggle. These choices would dictate your ships as a trader would take a ship with a larger hold than a smuggler would, as he would want something fast that could run a blockade or avoid searches. Pirates would differ from Smugglers and Traders with regard to how they were getting their cargo. Once acquired, they would act more like Smugglers to get into somewhere to trade the cargo. A MO would differ from a bounty hunter as you would focus on one faction to do jobs for, rather than looking for the best paying job, etc. Moving to STF, I want to play the same way, however, it is a different game. But the mindset that BH as a job is a secondary job, not a primary job is a bit of a mind bender to a new player. You really want to take Commander or something else as your primary job, even though your play style is going to be a BH. Its fine if that is a more advanced role, you do not want to spoon feed everything to the players, but I can see new players having the same disconnect. Maybe having a blurb about how BH is a job that synergizes with other jobs together to create a prestige class that is the BH. With regards to templates, agreed, they can be edited. However, many new players wanting to jump in are going to use a template as is for their first few games. I bounced this off my 13 year old, asked him how he would play given the starting screen with your captain, and he said he would just use a template off the bat. In any case, I will write a review at some point, I have a new captain to create! EDIT: Almost for got, for the longest time I could not figure out the red/blue bar under the ships on the combat screen meant. The red bar I figured was a measure of current hull, the blue bar is active crew? I could not find anything on that. I did not see much about dice and how combat worked until I went to the wiki and spent half and hour looking through it. Definitely check the wiki for ship combat, and link at the bottom of that page for ship combat strategies. They’ll explain all the UI and will give you ideas to use 😊 |
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Post by fallen on May 11, 2018 19:35:37 GMT -5
But the mindset that BH as a job is a secondary job, not a primary job is a bit of a mind bender to a new player. You really want to take Commander or something else as your primary job, even though your play style is going to be a BH. Its fine if that is a more advanced role, you do not want to spoon feed everything to the players, but I can see new players having the same disconnect. Maybe having a blurb about how BH is a job that synergizes with other jobs together to create a prestige class that is the BH. My apologies if I wasn't clear. Bounty Hunter is an officer or captain-centric job. That would, to me, make it a primary job. Secondary jobs are things that crew can handle on their own. Bounty Hunter is the quintessential job for the real bad %#@ on the ship. Absolutely primary imho. But maybe we're coming at it from different directions. |
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Post by warhammer on May 13, 2018 0:07:50 GMT -5
But the mindset that BH as a job is a secondary job, not a primary job is a bit of a mind bender to a new player. You really want to take Commander or something else as your primary job, even though your play style is going to be a BH. Its fine if that is a more advanced role, you do not want to spoon feed everything to the players, but I can see new players having the same disconnect. Maybe having a blurb about how BH is a job that synergizes with other jobs together to create a prestige class that is the BH. My apologies if I wasn't clear. Bounty Hunter is an officer or captain-centric job. That would, to me, make it a primary job. Secondary jobs are things that crew can handle on their own. Bounty Hunter is the quintessential job for the real bad %#@ on the ship. Absolutely primary imho. But maybe we're coming at it from different directions. We’re saying the same thing in different language. Also, a few more items: 1). Checked the wiki and this time the whole front page was there. Holy cow, there was a BH guide, which discussed most of what I had built into my new BH. 2). It definitely helps when you build your own attribute and skill set. I am still trying to figure out the best officer job set, but that last game went much better, up until my finances went off a cliff. 3). I love the ship configuration options. There are a few quirks I did not understand at first, but I have the grasp of it now. 4). I am very impressed by how everything fits together. 5). Unlike other similar games, losing experienced crew hurts... badly. Makes you think twice about engaging in combat. |
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Post by fallen on May 13, 2018 13:58:25 GMT -5
warhammer - great to hear The starting templates are good starting points Once you get a hang of the system, it is recommended to build your own. Hope you'll leave a review! Welcome to the community and a big +1 karma for the great feedback!
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Maybe we can find a way to indicate that somewhere.
