Some Bounty Hunter talent balance suggestions

[drspendlove]

Andy and I thought up a couple changes to make some BH talents more attractive:

Sustained Fire: Also apply a self-buff to make next use of Sustained Fire refund half of its initiative cost (or maybe a fixed amount like 5?)

Shredding Shots: Second use on same target increases deflection penalty to -30% from -20%.

These talents aren't as attractive as others currently, in our opinion.

Maybe some small nerfs in other talents would help; I don't know.

[fallen]

Thanks for the feedback! Interested to hear what other players think.

[drspendlove]

I think other talents of theirs will need some soft adjustments downward as well. We've been buffing players' stuff like crazy lately.

[drspendlove]

Now for that part Andy will murder me over:

Steadfast Aim:
In crew combat, Rifle Attack. Successful attack Buffs yourself with +25% Ranged Accuracy, +25% Ranged Damage, +20% Armor Piercing for 2 Turns

Way too strong. The name implies accuracy, I think, but that damage is too high. It'd be a fine move to use with +0% Damage bonus.


Lethal Trap is probably fine.


Hunter's Challenge should probably have its init cost lowered to 10. It'll still be very situational but it really isn't competitive at all at 12 cost.


Resolute Hound is excellent. But it's kinda a signature move?


Unfaltering Ire is possibly the best CC talent in the game by a decent margin. I'd nerf its init cost to 10.


Frag Grenade is a neat clutch move if your BH is pulled into rank 1 or 2. Keep as is, is my suggestion.

[resistor]

The thing about the BH rifle attack talents is that their effects are all buffs/debuffs that require a second attack to take advantage of (some also cause bleeding, but it is pretty rare for an enemy to die of bleeding so it's not very relevant).

I think Sustained Fire would be better balanced if it attacked with +10% damage instead of the bleeding affect, so the BH has at least one attack talent that is stronger than the default attack by itself.

Shredding Shots is weak for a rank 11 talent, and, bleeding affect aside, is worse than the rank 1 talent Lethal Trap, so this talent should be buffed somehow.

[resistor]

Jan 12, 2019 14:51:14 GMT -5 drspendlove said:

Now for that part Andy will murder me over:

Steadfast Aim:
In crew combat, Rifle Attack. Successful attack Buffs yourself with +25% Ranged Accuracy, +25% Ranged Damage, +20% Armor Piercing for 2 Turns

Way too strong. The name implies accuracy, I think, but that damage is too high. It'd be a fine move to use with +0% Damage bonus...

It is pretty strong, but I don't think the damage buff should be taken away entirely, as it is a big part of the appeal of this talent. Nerfing the damage bonus to only +10% sounds more reasonable to me.

...Lethal Trap is probably fine.


Hunter's Challenge should probably have its init cost lowered to 10. It'll still be very situational but it really isn't competitive at all at 12 cost...

I completely agree on these.

Unfaltering Ire is possibly the best CC talent in the game by a decent margin. I'd nerf its init cost to 10.

I wouldn't say it is the best talent in the game at all, but it is a very good debuff, so I can see the case for raising init cost to 10.

[fallen]

- Bounty Hunter Talent Initiative changes: Hunter's Challenge only costs 10, Unfaltering Ire now costs 10
- Bounty Hunter Steadfast Aim changes, reduced self-buff to +20% Damage, +20% Accuracy, +20% Piercing

Some changes are coming to the bleeding rules that will help Shredding Shots and Sustained Fire be more interesting.

[drspendlove]

Want to buff Hunter's Challenge a bit to make it particularly useful? Allow it to target position 4 as well. Drawing Snipers out of cover would be a use I could think of for it then. Want to buff it, but not that much? Remove the ability to target position 2, leaving it only able to draw out 3 and 4.

[resistor]

Jan 19, 2019 8:45:52 GMT -5 drspendlove said:

Want to buff Hunter's Challenge a bit to make it particularly useful? Allow it to target position 4 as well. Drawing Snipers out of cover would be a use I could think of for it then. Want to buff it, but not that much? Remove the ability to target position 2, leaving it only able to draw out 3 and 4.

I disagree on this. Currently, no talent can pull range 4 enemies into range 3, which makes range 4 a unique position in the meta. This might affect the meta to make slot 4 less powerful to snipers.

[drspendlove]

That was the point. If that's too strong, then let's leave this as-is.

[resistor]

Jan 19, 2019 14:14:43 GMT -5 resistor said:

Jan 19, 2019 8:45:52 GMT -5 drspendlove said:

Want to buff Hunter's Challenge a bit to make it particularly useful? Allow it to target position 4 as well. Drawing Snipers out of cover would be a use I could think of for it then. Want to buff it, but not that much? Remove the ability to target position 2, leaving it only able to draw out 3 and 4.

I disagree on this. Currently, no talent can pull range 4 enemies into range 3, which makes range 4 a unique position in the meta. This might affect the meta to make slot 4 less powerful to snipers.

I was incorrect here. The Commander talent Barked Order can push back a slot 3 target, which draws slot 4 into slot 3.

[drspendlove]

Reposting as this is a different approach to the same balance change. Namely these changes are more in line with existing game rules.

Here's a couple small buffs to make two unnecessarily weak attacks a bit stronger for BH's... so Andy will stop harassing me.

Current:
Sustained Fire: "In crew combat, Crippling Rifle Attack causes +12 Bleeding, -25% Armor for 3 Turns"

Consider changing to:
Sustained Fire: "In crew combat, Crippling Rifle Attack with +10% Accuracy causes +16 Bleeding, -25% Armor for 3 Turns"

As it is, there really isn't a ton of reason to use Sustained Fire when Steadfast Aim is so good, and then Lethal Trap has a strong deflection debuff, pins the foe and still gives some of the armor penalty. Giving it a small accuracy buff makes it suddenly an option for starting combat even in place of Steadfast Aim as you have to hit with S.A. before you get the bonuses. Bleeding is also pretty weak at this point in the game. A small buff to it may help tide the BH over until a bleeding rules rework is done.


Current:
Shredding Shots: "In crew combat, Crippling Rifle Attack causes +20 Bleeding, -20% Deflection for 2 Turns"

Lethal Trap is almost always a better choice despite being available 10 ranks earlier. (same deflection penalty, also knocks out some armor and pins. And it's usable on position 1.) The only reason to use Shredding Shots, just compared to that one talent are if you were pulled to position 2, you think the extra bleeding damage will finish off the foe and the turn is about over, or you've already used Lethal Trap on this foe.

Consider changing to:
Shredding Shots: "In crew combat, Crippling Rifle Attack causes +22 Bleeding, -25% Deflection, -20 Bleed Resist for 2 Turns"

This slight buff to bleeding and decent buff to deflection starts to make it competitive with Lethal Trap, but really the bleed resist penalty makes it stack with the underutilized Sustained Fire and creates a really good synergy with Zealots.