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Post by johndramey on Dec 17, 2013 21:43:19 GMT -5
Totally unrelated, but I wanted to tell a little story about my use of Vincent. As I've pointed out before, I use him as a skirmisher and a fast responder against soft targets. Now that I've gotten him up to level 8, he's more than capable of handling most non-hero enemies all by himself. As such, I usually send him on longer flanking actions. During a recent engagment with a big ole pile of Ratkin I had a bit of a scare though. See, Vraes and Vincent were doing their normal thing. Vincent hiding just behind Vraes letting poor Vraes absorb all the hits, when I noticed a couple archers in a relatively exposed position. "Now John," I think to myself, "why not send Vincent out there to teach them what for." Here you can see the situation just before Vincent hooking around Vraes and slaughtering some archers. So I wait a turn, letting the melee units further converge on Vraes while softening the archers a bit with Tamilin. After that, Vincent goes out, kills those two archers, and notices another Archer down by the southern barricade (you can just make it out on the bottom of that screenshot. "What the hell," I say to myself, "Vince can take one little 'ole archer by himself" and walk him down there to take a swing at the archer. Have to finish the turn and let Vince eat an arrow or two, but no big deal because he'll easily be able to take out that archer next turn. Next turn rolls up, I take out the archer, but Vince runs out of AP and I need to recast Charged speed on him. I let the turn cycle and... well.. the screenshot will tell you everything you need to know. Brown-trouser time, folks! Yup, the Deathkin and a couple of his buddies were hiding just out of visual range. They romped up and the Deathkin got to take 3 swings at poor Vincent, but Vince survived. I took that as a sign from the gods that it was time to pull him back to Vraes and company, all the while thanking The Nine that I took the talent points to boost Tear's of Myshana to level 3. One cast of it later, and getting Vraes a couple steps forward, and Vince was safe back with the pack.
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Post by algesan on Dec 20, 2013 20:38:21 GMT -5
Your first screenshot looks exactly how my party spends most of its time. Seriously, the things that turned Vince around was your suggestion to swap out weapons to get a 1AP one for Vince along with fighting one battle, then camping to restore spirit, especially early on.
I also noticed that if I use Vraes' self buffs, then let Tami lead the party (she still occasionally gets me first move in Nightmare from Stealth), at the start of the next combat Vraes has full duration buffs already on him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 15:51:01 GMT -5
johndrameyHow did your Vince build turn out for Ep. 1? For anyone: I've run two Vince builds now up to but not through the Great Shaman, one with melee and one with ranged. I've had a problem with my ranged Vince of running though his SP faster than any other party member and either sucking away all my potions or not being able to contribute effectively. I'm trying to figure out if I've just boosted my Lightning Spear too high too fast (lvl 4 talant at character lvl 9) or if Vince really doesn't have the SP to serve as a ranged support. Thoughts? I don't remember having this difficulty with the melee build and am looking forward to running a total melee Vince with the Rogue when she comes out. The hints that've been dropped so far about her cursing attacks sound like the perfect complement to have another light blades character slicing up Ratkin in tandem.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jan 13, 2014 23:51:09 GMT -5
The SP cost for LSpear is based on hitting an average number of targets, so it is higher (and has higher potential damage) than the equivalent Fire Bolt.
Some good tips I find for Vince:
- Blended combination of Ranged and Melee - Cleric's Sacrifice Talent helpful for SP - Favor LSpear when you will hit 3+ targets
I have done the two builds you mention myself many times -- I think you sum up the results well.
I have also been playing the Rogue and her melee focus, I think, puts an additional emphasis on Vince providing some ranged.
Together Vince and Rogue take a lot off pressure of Vraes as the tank but change the healing/buffing game.
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Post by fallen on Jan 14, 2014 0:20:02 GMT -5
Also, the increased SP costs means you need to put extra emphasis on Vincent's accuracy. You can't afford many misses, so make sure you are sharing the +Ranged Accuracy or +Accuracy gear with him (+Accuracy covers both Melee / Ranged). This may mean you have to take it away from Tamilin, but if you're struggling with Vincent, try it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 10:06:12 GMT -5
Thanks guys, great job on Vince and making him a unique play experience. I imagine myself having trouble getting through the story because I'm going to keep running the Prologue with all kinds of different builds of new characters as they come out. It's just so much fun to try all the different builds! Thanks. Back on topic: fallen I have high hopes for Vince with my next talent point because Thundering Blades will switch over to AOE. I'm eager to have the boost to lightning damage to overcome resistance when I use Lightning Spear and the accuracy boost for everyone. Right now I've reserved TB for Vraes or Tam as the Ratkin have not been cooperating in clumping together as much, but I am definitely looking for those accuracy boosts. Also, can't wait to start piling Eye of the Storm on top of that. Cackling indeed... Cory Trese I am looking forward to changing the healing game. I see the necessity of putting a point or two into Tears for Kyera but I'd really love to run her as a Purifying Breeze healer from lvl 6 and beyond. Having twin glass cannons in Vince and Rogue make it very appealing in addition to moving forward as more and more curses come from the enemy. I also see Warder's Shield in my future. They can't hurt what they can't touch, right? I also had a couple questions about Lightning Spear AOE: -Do I have to hit my designated target for it to have a chance at AOE? I think so but not sure. -One I bump up to lvl 5 Lightning Spear, do I need to have a certain skill level in something to ensure that I can hit every potential target? Since LS is sorcery-based I wasn't sure if the AOE rules for conjuring applied. -For the AOE it seems pretty clear cut as to how it might work in the talent description but I've seen the following where V is Vince and x is my designated LS target and o are two additional hits with it: _V_ oxo I've only seen it once. Is this because I was perpendicular to the line of enemies so the game gave me the benefit of the doubt on which direction I was aiming?
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Post by fallen on Jan 14, 2014 12:13:46 GMT -5
@rearick, 1) You have to hit the primary target for a chance at AoE, yes. 2) The maximum number of targets you can hit is based on Sorcery. You probably won't have any issue with this! 3) It's a lot of math about angles, and we tried to represent it in the simple images in the Talent descriptions. I'd say, take what benefit of the doubt you can get
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Post by slayernz on Jan 14, 2014 16:06:31 GMT -5
I've been playing with Vincent and have to say that Ole Shifty Eyes is, for me, the better wielder of destructive power. I would take Kjartan and deal death in all sorts of cool fashions ... knowing that he is as weak as a soggy pretzel actually helps me make him a very specialized killer. Vincent, on the other hand is trying to be great at two things at the same time. To keep him even slightly in line with Vraes in Melee means he becomes weak in the force. If you focus on getting him all magic'd up, he's weak in the stabby stabby. Vraes is my brute. Yes, it is nice to have Vincent as backup for when you can't just have Vraes blocking the path of the nasties, but between ole Shifty Eyes and the Thief, I could normally dispatch between 2 and 3 enemies per turn from a distance, and Vraes was dealing a killing blow to about two guys a turn on a good day. The Cleric was left to mop up with holy retribution for anything that is still crawling around.
So for me, because I got to know the strengths and weaknesses of the Alpha team, I have found they all fit together so smoothly now that Vincent is an outsider. He's trying to hang with the sporty kids AND the brain boxes ...
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Post by fallen on Jan 14, 2014 16:08:55 GMT -5
slayernz - awesome recap of your experiences with him! Some love him, some don't, but he's a lot of fun to play either way. I think he's a bit harder to master. Things will shift as every new character is added. Having a heavily armored Paladin next to Vraes or replacing Vraes with a lighter built sword-master ... oh how the game will change!
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Post by slayernz on Jan 14, 2014 16:46:45 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong - I'm going to keep going with my Vincent party until I complete Act 1 ... but my loyalty lies with the game nostalgically labeled "Lpha pack" ... when the Rogue comes out, I'll have another game to play through and one last one for the Paladin
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Post by fallen on Jan 14, 2014 16:51:21 GMT -5
slayernz - but what about the Rogue+Paladin+Alpha team? Play again? hahahahah I'm just glad you had fun in the Alpha and remember it fondly!
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Post by Cory Trese on Jan 14, 2014 19:16:17 GMT -5
The Alpha pack sorta included the rogue, no?
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Post by slayernz on Jan 14, 2014 19:18:18 GMT -5
Yes and No ... the looks yes, but not the skillset Can't wait to see the Rogue's talents
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Post by John Robinson on Jan 14, 2014 21:55:51 GMT -5
I recently learned Vincent's "Eye of the Storm" talent adds accuracy and critical percentage to every rangedspell attack he uses (thanks fallen). This really reminds me of Tamlin's "Deadly Intuition" Talent. There are other factors that raise spell accuracy, but I just think it is so cool he is able to do this with ranged magic attacks. It's like giving a "Bow Skill", or "Aimed Shot" aspect to ranged magic. Eye of the Storm is also a Lore driven duration talent, so the higher ranks are not prohibitive in SP cost.
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Post by captain nemo on Jan 17, 2014 22:21:04 GMT -5
John Robinson I like your NPC pic, fallen did a nice job on it. I plan on using mine the same way when I get it I'm really enjoying playing with Vincent... On my first play thru with him.
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