NPC's

[zciworezlo]

While going through the game, I've experienced a few story hits that have fallen a bit flat without NPC's to show what the story is telling.

- When entering Oskahold for the first time, I was not surprised to be greeted by guards, but on return trips I found it fairly odd to see no standing guards at the gates of the city or outside town hall. The story paints a clear picture of a city under siege, but without bedraggled travelers, skittish townspeople, or anxious guards, it feels a bit like an empty shopping mall.

- When driving the Ratkin out of the North Vault Fort, it would have made sense to see militia streaming into the fort immediately after - or barring that, to have the fort defended on return trips.

- When freeing the farmholds, I expected to be greeted by farmers with bows and pitchforks pumping their fists in celebration after breaking the Ratkin siege, and to see people streaming out of houses.

What do you think? I'm sure the technical implications are broad, but a few NPC's could seriously liven things up, and lend flesh to the story's well-built skeleton.

[johndramey]

I think you are right about the technical implications of NPCs, but I wouldn't mind seeing guards stationed around. Just have them be idle around the gates if possible. However, gotta see what fallen or Cory say about the feasibility of such a thing.

[fallen]

Thanks for the feedback, but having constant NPCs milling around or on the map is currently out of scope. We have a few of the places on your list to eventually add more NPC models to the cut-scenes (fort, farmhalls).

[nolost]

There's paradoxically a significant advantage to come back to very old PRG approach, ie without NPC in street or other places. You get used to it and it's ok, for me. When RPG started throw NPC, now they look almost also awful than those with none, ie have two NPC in a whole town is weird. Even have two in a military camp is weird. So RPG started add more and more NPC, schedules, activites and more. For what? The players end not know what NPC to talk with. So RPG added exclamation mark upon NPC with a significant dialog, and a golden one if there's quests to give. So let remove those interrogative or exclamation marks? Yeah but with 20 NPC wandering in the town and 20 more in the main buildings, the player end get overloaded by number of NPC to perhaps or not talk with. :-)

But in dungeons/areas I have played, overall they tend not have enough NPC area. It could be a hut, a little camp, something and not really a NPC, but something not enemies and combats. It's merging more combats with NPC stuff. The game in fact has a system to bring something relatively similar, it's the PC little dialogs, comment or talks during dungeons. That's well done, quite uncommon how it's used and it's very cool and a big plus of the game. But few special stuff to find when exploring, other than combats or chests and PC comments/dialogs on something found, would be cool. Some areas add many secrets, very cool and more should have this. I quote a large part of the game where a NPC follows from far the group and gives at key points some comments/advices/guidances. But then explore and find a NPC stuff is something else and would be cool in some areas.

[contributor]

Yeah, I actually really agree with that. Some non-hostile encounters, especially in transit dungeons would be interesting and could add a lot of depth to the world. Why not come across a scout, or caravan or crazy old man who lives by himself in the caves that would give some interesting bits of Underdeep history.

[Swami]

There are many places where non-enemy aligned NPCs would not fit.

[nolost]

Jun 4, 2014 9:10:11 GMT -5 Swami said:

There are many places where non-enemy aligned NPCs would not fit.

It's not easy, but it's possible, a variety of characters or camps can fit. To list some clichés but they could be used as a base for something less cliché, hermit, hunter, lost merchant, teleporting wizard, baned by his tribe/people, lost pet, peace/stop hostility request, sneaker, rogue you catch during a rest, more.

It's clearly not easy to mix combats areas and non combats area and the PC dialogs/comments is a nice trick well used to cover a part of the problem. I think a few more stuff "hidden around the corner" that isn't combats/chests would be welcome. Eventually few area would benefit more than this, when other areas could skip this or have already their tricks for diversification. I think the largest areas made with a more focused idea of exploring would benefit of some NPC stuffs. Other probably have already their stuff. But it could be other tools, like more secrets or even secrets in those exploration areas (or there was but too well hidden for me), or little tricks/puzzles, but I noticed the game skip entirely on puzzles mechanisms.

[Brutus Aurelius]

I can see several places to add NPCs as part of a little cut scene.

Such as when (EP 1 SPOILER) you find the missing caravan, there is one caravaneer on the verge of death who points you to the Muddy Cave.

[fallen]

Thanks for the feedback. We have to focus our energy on high value returns that fit and support the story. The caravan has been gone for some time, and the killing was done by the Ratkin. I am wary of adding NPCs just to have them, because it erodes the immersion in the story.

[Brutus Aurelius]

True. I was just wondering out loud.

[fallen]

only so many hours in the day and night

[Brutus Aurelius]

But you guys live on Crammers and coffee fallen ! You guys must code in bullet-time to get all of these amazing games done!

[nolost]

Jun 4, 2014 18:08:55 GMT -5 fallen said:

Thanks for the feedback. We have to focus our energy on high value returns that fit and support the story. The caravan has been gone for some time, and the killing was done by the Ratkin. I am wary of adding NPCs just to have them, because it erodes the immersion in the story.

I do understand the requirement to be efficient and have the maximum impact, like focus on story, but some area aren't that. I felt them as larger area to provide a feeling of space and exploration and be sure to avoid a linearity feeling. That for those areas I felt there was too much combats and chests only/mainly. I haven't the exact count, but it's not many areas, only few, but they are quotable because of their size.

And in fact there's already many characters comments that are more lore related and they add to an area. I think it would be easier to use also a bit of NPC to diversify the pleasures in those large exploration areas.

Moreover they could have strong links with the main story and still be optional and skipable in case a player don't find the NPC/little bit of story. For example at a rest you could catch a thief and have unclear clues he could be a baron's spy, no evidence, just light doubts/suspicions in the player mind. Or if you met a lost merchant he could explain he flee Baron's men and wanted go "there" and get lost and tell the party some partial clues about the main story. Another example is if you met a hermit, or someone who look like one, he could be a preview of a future important NPC, record the trigger of the event and keep to generate a flashback when later you'll meet him, again. But I mention NPC just because it's the topic of the thread, other tools to diversify the pleasure are fine too. PC comment and little dialogs are an excellent tool for that. Secrets are also a great tool.

And yeah I'm not making games and it's words. :-) Without any suggestion, the pure player comment is in few areas, mainly those larger with exploration, I felt them a bit too much as having too much combats and chests mainly. But yeah nothing is perfect, it's just a comment, and overall I enjoy a lot the game, and many many details I enjoy and they show the design polishing.