First Campsite/Skill Selection

[Karjus]

Probably a long shot, but will throw it out there.

I'd personally like the ability to reselect the initial Talents for characters once they reach that first campsite in the tutorial.

For example, Vraes starts with 1 Stone Skin, 1 Crushing Blow and 1 Savage Sweep so once he gets there all those skills get set to zero and he gets 3 extra Talent Points to use.

Why? Some people will never touch some of the abilities that are available, and would just let them put points towards things they do want. Just like having the variety of weapons for Vraes at the beginning, having more freedom of choice allows people to attempt more builds created how they want.

Like I said, long shot but figured I'd put it up.

[algesan]

I like this idea, if it could be done. OTOH, I think that there is really only 1 point I'd change for each.

[Karjus]

*ponders* Thinking about it..

2 Vraes
1-2 Karjtan depending on build
1 possibly Kyera
0 Tamlin
1-2 Vincent depending on build

[algesan]

As you note, the worst problem is Vraes. This comes from having two bonus attacks. IIRC, he doesn't start with Natural Mastery, so giving him that while dropping the bonus damage attack would do the trick IMO.

Main reason for that one? Damage bonuses really sort of stink since they never really add to your damage in any reliable fashion. Since I have no clue about the coding language PLUS the details on the combat system, I don't know if any if several ideas, like + X damage means +1 to base damage & +(X-1) damage could be done.

But fixing Vraes by swapping another skill for one of the enhanced melee attacks would make all of the characters equal on "losing" a point to a less useful skill for a certain build.

[Karjus]

Vraes is definitely the worst. FYI, Crushing Blow (or whatever it is called, the +dmg one) recently got tweaked to include an accuracy bonus further down the progression. Whether it is worth it or not, who knows but Natural Mastery definitely seems mandatory on harder difficulties.

I also see Kyera/Vincent as issues. Kyera *can* be built as a ranged caster, but begins with points in a melee talent instead. Vincent on the other hand, can also be built as either ranged or melee or hybrid (probably wouldn't recommend that on harder difficulties though) but unlike Kyera he doesn't begin as one or the other but split between two.

Likely, new characters will also bring up new issues. I suppose some might have a problem with Tamlin starting with a ranged ability instead of melee.. but anyone who ignores her ranged and goes pure melee likely needs their head examined.

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the feedback. Noted into the list.

There are pluses and minuses on both sides.

The current rules are a great compromise.

Works well for new players and by level 25 it doesn't matter.

[Karjus]

Definitely not a major issue. I think some people just like to optimize characters, I know I'm one of those people. If I want to go for a build, I don't like loose points here or there I liked it streamlined and set up how I want it especially when there is a limit to the amount of points available to put where I'd like them.

[Cory Trese]

You'll control all but 3 of the points. Optimize with those points.

The same basic argument could be made for skills and stats.

The issue is about balance, permutations and the scale and scope of the game's stat ranges.

I like to optimize too but ...

[Karjus]

I know, I go above and beyond what normal people like. I'm well aware of that. As for skills/stats, they're nearly always useful. Most stats/skills have some relevance to a mechanic for a character. There are usually only 1 exception for each character. Talents however, are a little different.

[fallen]

Jan 29, 2014 13:17:43 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

You'll control all but 3 of the points. Optimize with those points.

The game starts you with a nice set of talents. Do what you will.

[algesan]

None of the starting skills for the current 5 characters are useless in the higher difficulties. Maybe not optimal for certain builds, but not useless, except for the +damage attack for Vraes. Unless there is something at level 25 that will suddenly make it useful, I even quit using it in my original test Normal party by level 8 or so because unreliable bonus damage means nothing if you are having trouble even hitting.....

[Cory Trese]

If you are not increasing the level of Crushing Blow, you will stop using it quickly. It is effective in the first few levels against high Armor targets, likewise with Savage Sweep against the hard to hit targets.

[algesan]

I did drop points in it originally, 4-5 IIRC, but it became a problem to hit mobs which meant extra damage didn't help. It might end up an uber high level skill with max weapon skill, max Mastery talent and bonus accuracy items, but at these lower levels, chipping away with reliable small hits & geared for tanking seems to work a lot better.

[fallen]

If you are planning on using Crushing Blow, then you need to find another way to provide the accuracy. I have a successful Level 15 Group where Vraes never touches Savage Sweep.

In my opinion, none of the Talents are useless and you get to spend the advantage points you gain after level 1. Use them well.

[Cory Trese]

Jan 29, 2014 22:08:20 GMT -5 algesan said:

I did drop points in it originally, 4-5 IIRC, but it became a problem to hit mobs which meant extra damage didn't help. It might end up an uber high level skill with max weapon skill, max Mastery talent and bonus accuracy items, but at these lower levels, chipping away with reliable small hits & geared for tanking seems to work a lot better.

There was also an earlier iteration of Crushing Blow that did not add Accuracy bonuses at all.

Depends on what version you were using. It suffered from the above problem badly in the first version.