SP Management

[xdesperado]

Okay I understand that for game balance you need to keep the SP cost of talents at certain points so one or more characters aren't overpowered.
That said certain Talents and characters seem to be a bit off currently to me.

Selen can burn a huge amount of SP very quickly and add in the fact that she also uses SP out of combat for picking locks, disabling traps and scouting plus any buffs she might use and I have to wonder if her SP pool/SP per Level might be a bit low. It doesn't help that she gets one of the lowest SP per Intelligence point boosts as well.
Haven't played much with Tamlin but I'm guessing she's in about the same situation.

Vraes, at least the way I've got him currently set up, is good for one encounter, even fairly long ones, but unless I feed him potions can't afford to re-cast his buffs and still have SP for empowered attacks to do a second encounter. That said I think giving him another point or two of intelligence will give him enough SP for two encounters including multiple buffs.

Kyera and Kjartan are both good with their SP pools, in fact Kjartan despite casting multiple buffs and flinging about plenty of Immolation 4s will almost always be the last to run out of SP by a considerable margin.

Would like to see a bit of rebalancing on character SP pools so entire party can manage two encounters without resorting to potions to recharge one or more of them.
I understand that its a delicate process and nearly impossible to account for all possible builds and play styles but do think it could be fine tuned a bit more.

As always comments and suggestions are welcomed.

[Outsider]

xdesperado - I gave up on my Hard game and went for a Normal game this time (seemed like a more logical progression from Easy) and I have found with my current build that intelligence for Vraes and Selen is my second most upgraded stat (after DEX for Selen and CON for Vraes). Using this type of setup I generally have enough SPs for two major fights without potions, using a potion each for my melee characters I can go for four large combats now by late Act II.

Two suggestions I might make to help the devs is what your basic party setup (talents/attributes) and difficulty level, because that could make a big difference. For me I find SP to be reasonable but I've made INT a focus for the reasons you're mentioning.

[algesan]

I don't see this one as a balance issue on the game side myself. Sure, there will probably be more tweaking along the way, but unless the TB have made some big changes in the last few patches (when I quit playing), the Talent balances are viable on the game side.

My standard for a NM party is a minimum of two combats before OOM. Yep sometimes I faced some seriously stupid extended fights for various reasons as exceptions. Also along the way, expect to oopsie and get where you can't quite sustain two. Classic for me was my Mastery Vraes, that I had to buy Sacrifice for Kyera when I hadn't planned to because he was a few SP short of being able to cast Mastery twice and the smallest SP potion was more SP minimum than he needed.
(Note: It sucketh that the little Spirit pot isn't available past Oskahold.)
Pretty much you have to manage your spirit consumption as you fight your way through. Want to use enhanced attacks all the time? Don't pump your buffs up a lot. Don't use low AP weapons all the time. Or do what I do, pump your buffs, get a level or three in an enhanced attack for boss (or ROUS) fights, and use the base attack almost all the rest of the time.

[fallen]

xdesperado - I think the suggestions in the threads are good ones:

1) Consider raising INT, its very important.
2) Consider raising skills that back your buffs, which can allow you to go through 2+ fights without re-buffing.
3) Consider not raising talents higher due to SP cost based - you simply may not be ready to pay the cost.
4) Look hard at your weapon allocation. Yes, if Selen is carrying a 1 AP blade and using a Cursing or Empowered Attack every time, she is going to burn SP like wild fire.

We have continued to make small tweaks to Talents, but I don't foresee any sizable changes to SP allocation or Talent cost.

[xdesperado]

fallen

Both Selen and Kjartan have 8 intelligence in my current game.
Kjartan is getting an extra 36SP from gear while Selen is getting an extra 20SP from gear.
Pre-Battle Buffs sees Kjartan spending 29SP casting Burning Blades 5 and Pureflame 1 on party. Selen spends 14SP on Dance of Shadows 3.

In combat Kjartan regularly fires two Immolation 5s per turn except first turn when he'll likely fire off a pair of Choking Ash 1s. Note I'm not reluctant to hit single targets with his Immolation despite its 30SP cost. Turns he fires two Immolations that's 60SP. Only 8SP of course on twin Choking Ash 1s.

Selen regularly fires three Pinning Shot 5s which costs 36SP. If close enough she might spend another 3SP on Punishing Blades 1 or Frenzied Blows 2.
Note its actually much cheaper for her to engage in melee with her 1AP weapon than to use PS currently.

Anyways because of her small SP pool size and low increases to it from levels/intelligence Selen will be hitting empty well before Kjartan in any extended engagement.

Non of the above takes into account her other non combat expenditures of SP that are routinely called for unlike anyone else in the party.

Even Vraes gets more SP per both level and point of intelligence and with my current build his big SP killer is the Pre-Combat Buffing with Stone Skin 5 and Natural Mastery 2.
His Crushing Blow 5 is a very reasonable 6SP per attack and he often doesn't get to make all 3 attacks due to movement.

Overall I think the system is pretty good, just think a few small tweaks would help balance it a bit closer unless someone goes completely bonkers on extremely high cost Talents for one character.

[fallen]

I guess we could strip away the HP bonuses she gets and put her more SP heavy, but I think that would really make Selen even more of a risk to the party. Not sure I would like that result of that re-balance.

Your statement about SP gain is incorrect - Selen gains more SP every level (7) vs. Vraes (4).

I fixed a typo in the text for Selen's HP gain - she now reads:
"I gain +21 Hit Points per point of Constitution. I gain +14 HP per Level."

I fixed a typo in the Wizard's HP gain - he now reads:
"I gain +16 Hit Points per point of Constitution. I gain +8 HP per Level."

The numbers in action in the system have been right the entire time, just in-text typos.

[xdesperado]

Hmm I've yet to give any characters a Constitution bump. They've all had sufficent for my style of play and the way enemies act.

Guess the penalty for Selen being such a versatile killing machine is that she'll always be dealing with SP management issues. Same for Vraes to a lesser extent.