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Post by qwestyngbeast on Mar 24, 2014 19:11:51 GMT -5
As I understand the way Steath currently works, it prevents you from having as many encounters as would otherwise occur. This is actually a disadvantage for some classes and situations. Yet, stealth costs a high price in terms of level calculation. It really does not seem to provide adequate benefits given this disadvantage.
I suggest that in a case where an encounter would be avoided due to stealth, the player may choose to engage or to avoid. An example from the real world would be a submarine that is able to detect and identify a surface vessel while remaining undetected. The sub commander is able to decide to attack or remain hidden and let the potential target pass unmolested. Another real world example might be an aircraft using stealth technology that might detect another aircraft by passive radar while remaining undetected by the target. The pilot then may choose to engage or take steps to avoid a confrontation. Well-known examples from fiction might include the cloaked vessels used by Romulans and Klingons in Star Trek.
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 24, 2014 20:23:58 GMT -5
Stealth always works in your advantage -- you want to encounter under Patrol -- where you detect and identify.
Stealth is rolling to avoid negative and increase positive.
Look deeper into how you might use the Sector menu to increase the effectiveness of your play.
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Post by contributor on Mar 25, 2014 4:53:38 GMT -5
At the same time though, stealth should allow you to encounter ships that might otherwise be hostile but are not because they have not detected you yet, thus giving the player the choice to engage or not. Even if you encounter a hostile ship using patrol it is as if you both encounter each other at the same time and they will turn and attack you. The chance that "they have not detected us yet sir, we could let them pas by" would be an interesting addition to the choices we have available.
And unless some things have changed, Patrol has never been a great way to encounter ships especially in the late game, but maybe everybody is using it wrong.
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 25, 2014 13:02:22 GMT -5
At the same time though, stealth should allow you to encounter ships that might otherwise be hostile but are not because they have not detected you yet, thus giving the player the choice to engage or not. Even if you encounter a hostile ship using patrol it is as if you both encounter each other at the same time and they will turn and attack you. The chance that "they have not detected us yet sir, we could let them pas by" would be an interesting addition to the choices we have available. And unless some things have changed, Patrol has never been a great way to encounter ships especially in the late game, but maybe everybody is using it wrong. It's the best way for my Captains to encounter non-hostile advantage ships in late game. What you're describing above is how Patrol works. However, in keeping with our carefully built universe there are some technical realities that all Star Trading Captains must face. |
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Post by starfixer on Mar 25, 2014 14:20:04 GMT -5
As I understand the way Steath currently works, it prevents you from having as many encounters as would otherwise occur. This is actually a disadvantage for some classes and situations. Yet, stealth costs a high price in terms of level calculation. It really does not seem to provide adequate benefits given this disadvantage. The main reason why Stealth is weighed more than other stats is not because of its avoid encounters bonus, but its long range combat bonuses. Stealth is the primary skill for long range combat, which is much less risky compared to short range combat because the enemy can't ram or board. Furthermore, stealth prevents enemy changing range and retreats at medium and long range. If stealth counted as much as other skills and you invested Stealth such that is was 250% of your level, you would be able to ignore/escape all enemies, even aliens on impossible difficulty, and no enemies, even aliens on impossible difficulty, would be able to hit nor advance on you. On crazy and below difficulties you can still do this, but like you stated its costly to other stats. Also, like Cory said, Stealth prevents deep-space encounters but helps to encounter ships during patrol (though not nearly as much as Tactics). Try patrolling sectors with the following rumors early in the game with high tactics, stealth, speed, sails and omni-stealth upgrade for lots of non-hostile merchants: "merchant fleet carrying valuable shipments", "swarm of refugees", "merchant fleet exploiting local populice". |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 25, 2014 14:34:17 GMT -5
And Stealth helps with drawing advantageous ships (like Smugglers, Merchants, Hives)
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 25, 2014 18:28:17 GMT -5
I need to look again at the impact of Stealth on the other positive impact ship selections -- Blockade and Spy, beyond just Patrol I believe that there are tertiary effects here that contribute to Stealth's balance.
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Post by starfixer on Mar 25, 2014 19:55:52 GMT -5
I need to look again at the impact of Stealth on the other positive impact ship selections -- Blockade and Spy, beyond just Patrol I believe that there are tertiary effects here that contribute to Stealth's balance. Even so, I still think the long range combat effects are what makes Stealth overbalanced without the extra weight. Pilot gives lots of deep-space, landing, operation and combat effects and it's still 1/2 stealth weight. |
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Post by qwestyngbeast on Mar 27, 2014 21:00:11 GMT -5
I need to look again at the impact of Stealth on the other positive impact ship selections -- Blockade and Spy, beyond just Patrol I believe that there are tertiary effects here that contribute to Stealth's balance. Even so, I still think the long range combat effects are what makes Stealth overbalanced without the extra weight. Pilot gives lots of deep-space, landing, operation and combat effects and it's still 1/2 stealth weight. I have no problem with Stealth being weighted. I thought that perhaps Stealth was preventing otherwise desirable encounters. According to information Cory gives above that is not correct. I still think that Stealth should allow you to see them before you are seen and chose to engage, or leave undetected. It is just that patrol seems worthless. I thought perhaps that was caused by Stealth preventing encounters. Perhaps it is not Stealth that needs to be fixed. Perhaps it is Patrol that needs a look. If I am trying to find merchant ships of a particular faction to work a Trade War, finding one is like hitting the lottery. I can patrol on their planets. I can patrol in their space. I can patrol at choke points in the green sector pathways. I find less than one ship in a hundred turns spent on patrol. I will spend hundreds of turns and will have to put into port many times for fuel to find only a few ships, and not all of those will be useful for the Trade War. I have also tried using it for finding ships related to the "merchant in space with extra security" with little success. I will typically spend far more in fuel searching than I will ever be able to recover from the ships found, or more typically, not found. |
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Post by starfixer on Mar 28, 2014 9:50:35 GMT -5
Even so, I still think the long range combat effects are what makes Stealth overbalanced without the extra weight. Pilot gives lots of deep-space, landing, operation and combat effects and it's still 1/2 stealth weight. I have no problem with Stealth being weighted. I thought that perhaps Stealth was preventing otherwise desirable encounters. According to information Cory gives above that is not correct. I still think that Stealth should allow you to see them before you are seen and chose to engage, or leave undetected. It is just that patrol seems worthless. I thought perhaps that was caused by Stealth preventing encounters. Perhaps it is not Stealth that needs to be fixed. Perhaps it is Patrol that needs a look. If I am trying to find merchant ships of a particular faction to work a Trade War, finding one is like hitting the lottery. I can patrol on their planets. I can patrol in their space. I can patrol at choke points in the green sector pathways. I find less than one ship in a hundred turns spent on patrol. I will spend hundreds of turns and will have to put into port many times for fuel to find only a few ships, and not all of those will be useful for the Trade War. I have also tried using it for finding ships related to the "merchant in space with extra security" with little success. I will typically spend far more in fuel searching than I will ever be able to recover from the ships found, or more typically, not found. Stealth does increase good encounters for patrol, but for patrol overall you really want mostly tactics. Tactics, solar sails and ship speed. Stealth and omni-stealth array are secondary. |
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Post by Officer Genious on Mar 28, 2014 11:03:02 GMT -5
And Stealth helps with drawing advantageous ships (like Smugglers, Merchants, Hives)I would NOT consider Hives advantageous to run into... |
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Post by contributor on Mar 28, 2014 17:08:26 GMT -5
As long as it's not a Narvidian Hive, they will run from you. So they are not really advantageous or disadvantageous. Just kind of a "geewizzz, what was that?" occasion. I've probably seen thousands of them and only been able to catch one without cheating.
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Post by starfixer on Mar 29, 2014 19:54:47 GMT -5
As long as it's not a Narvidian Hive, they will run from you. So they are not really advantageous or disadvantageous. Just kind of a "geewizzz was that?" occasion. I've probably seen thousands of them and only been able to catch one without cheating. Maybe he means hives compared to aliens? Id certainly rather run into a cowardly hive than a murderous alien terrox |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 30, 2014 11:51:27 GMT -5
Hives are advantageous to run into. They're never hostile.
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