I still don't know what half of this stuff does

[contributor]

First, I am enjoying the most recent update of the game. I've got a game on Normal where I should be able to eliminate all of the Xenos. Can't wait to see the amazing victory screen!!!!

As I play though I'm still feeling very much lost as to what many of the things in the game do.

Slowly I'm starting to get a grasp on what some of the numbers on the empire summary screen mean. It's really not self-explanatory at all though.

When it comes to income and buildings that provide it I'm still completely lost. I know Mines are good. I know keeping everyone working in a factory is good. I assume exchanges (especially on De Valtos worlds) bring in lots of cash, but I really have no idea because all that's listed is maintenance. In fact if I look at my colony list I see that only one planet is making a profit and yet I'm pulling in about 400 credits a turn. I assume this is from trade agreements, but I really have no clue.

Ship upgrades are also very confusing. My first invasion ship is pretty basic, so after some research I have the option to do some upgrading. I can upgrade the Drop Pods or I can some sort of Assault Brigade. I can only upgrade one because of the ship size but I really have no clue which one does what. When I do build my upgraded ship (went with the brigade thingy) it doesn't seem to make my ship any better at Invade which is what I normally use because I don't want to damage the nice pretty worlds for my colonists.

There are numerous other places where I just kind of pick something and see how it works, but often times can't really see the difference.

This isn't a rant, because I'm only playing on Normal and I know it's an alpha. I also know that Cory Trese and fallen are busy hammering on this to make it less opaque. It will be great to see the new advisors and how they help us learn our way around. But, this is to say that the single biggest problem I see right now with EiE (Empires in Exodus) is this lack of clarity as to what many different things do. There will always be niche gamers who will be happy to stick around and figure it all out eventually, but for a lot of people, especially in mobile markets, if it smells like complicated and hard to learn, the masses aren't going to upgrade to elite.

[shapcano]

On this vein, I'd love to have concrete numbers and better descriptions of just what all the political agreements actually do.

[Cory Trese]

You get a library in P3 that gives you all the details. I'm look at it right now, it answers all those questions. It's not HoS, it's more like ST. There are a lot of numbers, a ton of rules and you've got to find your own way to play.

There will always be niche gamers who will be happy to stick around and figure it all out eventually, but for a lot of people, especially in mobile markets, if it smells like complicated and hard to learn, the masses aren't going to upgrade to elite.

That is what we thought too, initially. If you are right, the mobile markets will eventually be the end of TB.

If you're wrong, people will flock to our games because they represent an island of hard to master complexity in a sea of Angry Birds and Fruit Ninja.

That said, we're going for a middle ground and the Library and Advisor will provide some of that. The Ship Designer won't be for everyone, even with details listed where they are missing (Systems like Troops and Solar Sails.) There will be canned designs along the tree so people who don't want to play ship's architect don't have to. ASAP I will also be adding an "auto-design" feature who just want something auto-selected for them.

Thanks for the feedback, if you have more details I'm happy to take them into account.

[Officer Genious]

That being said, from a customer viewpoint a badly designed game and a complex one is often a narrow line. The trouble is that if too much is complicated to understand, casual gamers (who make up a big portion of mobile markets) aren't going to be bothered to learn, thinking it's badly designed (though even some massive games suffer from overcomplicated mechanics). Simply put, if there Isn't a simple gradual curve, no one wants to learn it. A good example would be Dragon Age Origins- people complained that controlling party members and and having to switch between them at all times was annoying. There's actually a tactic system to fine-tune what you want the characters to do via if-then statements. I don't think anyone but me actually used it for things besides 'take a health potion'. :/ The bar to entry was a bit overwhelming and therefore, even though it made life a good deal easier people ignored it.

But you guys all ready know this. Just chipping in some general gaming observations.

[Cory Trese]

May 16, 2014 11:08:55 GMT -5 Officer Genious said:

That being said, from a customer viewpoint a badly designed game and a complex one is often a narrow line. The trouble is that if too much is complicated to understand, casual gamers (who make up a big portion of mobile markets) aren't going to be bothered to learn, thinking it's badly designed (though even some massive games suffer from overcomplicated mechanics). Simply put, if there Isn't a simple gradual curve, no one wants to learn it. A good example would be Dragon Age Origins- people complained that controlling party members and and having to switch between them at all times was annoying. There's actually a tactic system to fine-tune what you want the characters to do via if-then statements. I don't think anyone but me actually used it for things besides 'take a health potion'. :/ The bar to entry was a bit overwhelming and therefore, even though it made life a good deal easier people ignored it.

But you guys all ready know this. Just chipping in some general gaming observations.

"[that which divides] a badly designed game and a complex one is often a narrow line" and a very personal one.

I hope we get it right.

We never would stand a chance without people like contributor and Officer Genious providing that market insight.

[Officer Genious]

Hah, thanks but in all honesty I think anyone whose played a game and wanted to improve how they play can tell you about friends who tune out thinking 'too complicated'. Some just learn to dig deep anyway.

[Cory Trese]

The Library:

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The Advisor:

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[Deleted]

In a review of the first three TB games i did for sarna.net, I mentioned something along these lines. Basically theres a dichotomy between casual and other players on mobile phones. Casual is always going to dominate the mobiles mainly from "toilet gaming", parents giving really little kids the phone to shut them up, and teenyboppers used to instant gratification with high quality 3D graphics who cant live without their phones but have the attention span of a gnat. The tabletop gaming market has been largely destroyed from that last part.

Balance the number of downloads of games like angry birds which number in the millions and nostalgic games like these and even emulators which number in the (tens) of thousands and you see what I mean. In the end the brothers must balance their love of specific kinds of games with their need to make a living at it.

Im in my 30s and work where I can use my phone often. TBs games are perfect for me.