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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 6, 2014 9:53:59 GMT -5
The bonuses of lower level Ferocity can be had for less Spirit with Crushing Blow (CB). For example:
Level 1 Ferocity: +2 Accuracy, +32 Damage, 16 Spirit
Level 4 CB: +2 Accuracy, +32 Damage, 5 Spirit
This gives CB a clear Spirit efficiency advantage.
Level 3 Ferocity: +4 Acc, +64 Dam, 28 sp.
Level 8 CB: +4 Acc, +66 Dam, 12sp.
However, Ferocity takes many fewer Talent Points to achieve high level bonuses than CB.
Level 5 Ferocity: +6 Accuracy, +96 Damage, 44 Spirit.
Level 10 CB: +5 Accuracy, +90 Damage, 16 Spirit.
This gives Ferocity a Talent Point efficiency advantage.
Will there come a time at the end of Episode 2 or even in Episode 3 where massive bonuses are really important?
Given the Lore & Lore Talent focus of my current Vraes, I may only advance Ferocity and never move CB past the first level you get when you start. Sort of funny 'cause I started writing this thread to rule out use of Ferocity, because it is so Spirit inefficient.
Judging the relative merit of Juggernaut is difficult without knowing more about the MP and SP bonuses. Can someone give some info on that?
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Post by contributor on Jun 6, 2014 10:16:50 GMT -5
Good questions, I often find myself stuck between these same options. I've used CB a lot because i can swing it all day with the SP requirements. The one Ferocity build I tried hasn't worked out like I would imagine. If you want to try it, make sure to use KJ for his choking ash and burning blades. You'll probably also want to develop a Kyera with Sacrifice to keep feeding the Beast (Vraes) SP. You'll probably also want to go with a 2H or spear to really maximize the damage and cut down on SP use. It kinda sucks though when you miss with it. There goes a 5th of Vraes SP down the drain.
Juggernaut works nice with lots of AoE damage from other characters. Ideally they soften up a bunch of baddies and then you move in with Vraes and kill off three at a time. I notice at level 1 I sometime gain more SP than I spend, but not at level 2. The SP/MP advantages only increase at certain levels 4 and 7 I think. In between those times the increase is static.
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Post by En1gma on Jun 6, 2014 12:22:35 GMT -5
Personally I prefer putting points into CB just to keep damage up. But for high value targets I try for one hit kills, so I focus on getting rank 2 or 3 ferocity- it crushes, but missing is crazy expensive, so it's nice to have CB as a high damage alternative. None if these talents are worth the points, however, without support from -dodge -parry curses, imo.
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Post by contributor on Jun 6, 2014 12:36:16 GMT -5
This thread is making me want to go and start another group. That's not good.
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Post by En1gma on Jun 6, 2014 13:27:45 GMT -5
Lol I know- I went Fyona, Selen and KJ going for Juggernaut- Selen using her bow with PS for AoE and -ap and used KJ for Immolation aoe and crowd control with Ash... Unfortunately I became unhappy with the build bc I misplaced some critical talent points with Fyona and Selen. However- replace Fy with Ky and focus on Sacrifice and get Anguish up to AoE status and you have the makings of dual -ap cursers (Pinning Shot for both -ap and AoE) and triple -dodge and -parry setups, as well as twin AoE to get all those baddies ready for Vraes to wade in and crush with Juggernaut (BoS for that added mp and dodge) and just go ham. God damn I love this game. Now I want to go and make that build... Must... Resist.... Perfect build.....Must resist....
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Post by nolost on Jun 6, 2014 16:33:28 GMT -5
Tried put one point in ferocity and get horrified by the SP spend. Should have load back a backup to cancel it. Now I put no points in both because CB looks weak in comparison but I should put more points in CB but I wonder, if I have troubles with not enough damages against heavy armored or something the ferocity will be a faster way to solve the problem and cheaper talent points coast. So still only one point in both. :-)
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 7, 2014 10:46:54 GMT -5
Bwahaha... I've drawn two helpless souls into new builds.
I'm still undecided about CB versus Ferocity... put that decision off by investing in Natural Master and Lore. This build is buff/curse oriented, so Kjartan is focussing on leveling up Burning Blades and Choking Ash.
Good point about softening up the opposition with AoE attacks to set up Juggernaut.
At this point, I'm leaning back towards CB cause of the spirit point efficiency.
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Post by En1gma on Jun 7, 2014 11:09:09 GMT -5
So use them both  Boost up Ferocity until it kills in one hit, so when something absolutely has to die, it dies, then boost up CB for normal swings and high consistency/low SP/high damage output. They are made to be used together imo- flexibility in sp cost... |
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Post by nolost on Jun 7, 2014 11:29:17 GMT -5
Ha ha yeah but there isn't an infinite number of talents points and I already put points in Savage Sweep which is then my normal sweep. Perhaps I spread a bit too much the talents, problem of first play. :-)
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Post by narana on Jun 7, 2014 11:57:26 GMT -5
Bwahaha... I've drawn two helpless souls into new builds. I'm still undecided about CB versus Ferocity... put that decision off by investing in Natural Master and Lore. This build is buff/curse oriented, so Kjartan is focussing on leveling up Burning Blades and Choking Ash. Good point about softening up the opposition with AoE attacks to set up Juggernaut. At this point, I'm leaning back towards CB cause of the spirit point efficiency. Just a quick info, past the first half of E2A1, the fire damage on burning blade will do no damage for 3/4 of your team members since all enemies have good resistance. So consider that burning blade is +fire damage and +crit for your mage, and +crit for the rest of your group. Choking ash however is amazing and is worth maxing for all groups, probably one of the strongest talent in the game right now. edit: juggernaut is super fun but remember that it doesn't help much vs (mini)bosses |
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Post by fallen on Jun 7, 2014 13:50:50 GMT -5
narana - what level are you using BB?
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Post by contributor on Jun 7, 2014 14:16:27 GMT -5
Bwahaha... I've drawn two helpless souls into new builds. I'm still undecided about CB versus Ferocity... put that decision off by investing in Natural Master and Lore. This build is buff/curse oriented, so Kjartan is focussing on leveling up Burning Blades and Choking Ash. Good point about softening up the opposition with AoE attacks to set up Juggernaut. At this point, I'm leaning back towards CB cause of the spirit point efficiency. Just a quick info, past the first half of E2A1, the fire damage on burning blade will do no damage for 3/4 of your team members since all enemies have good resistance. So consider that burning blade is +fire damage and +crit for your mage, and +crit for the rest of your group. Choking ash however is amazing and is worth maxing for all groups, probably one of the strongest talent in the game right now. edit: juggernaut is super fun but remember that it doesn't help much vs (mini)bosses It's true that the bonus is not nearly what it seems, but there are some ways to still make use of it. If you can stack a bunch of fire gear on top of it, it can still give you some damage. I've got a group right now in the Underforge on Nightmare (all level 21). Fyona is using Holy Strikening (level 5 I believe) and it reduces the regular mobs resistance to 0 and makes them weak verse every type of elemental damage. With Burning Blades 7 on everybody those cultists die pretty quickly. It took a lot of time to get this group into shape. A few times I doubted it would be worth continuing with. Since the Orcin caves though It has started to become one of the most fun groups I've played. |
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Post by fallen on Jun 7, 2014 14:25:20 GMT -5
It's true that the bonus is not nearly what it seems, but there are some ways to still make use of it. If you can stack a bunch of fire gear on top of it, it can still give you some damage. Definitely agree that it needs to be worked into a bigger group strategy. I think its one of my most favorite parts of Heroes strategies, few things stand alone. |
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Post by contributor on Jun 7, 2014 14:31:07 GMT -5
I can tell you this guy didn't like Burning Blades very much. "45 armor and O resistance"...  |
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Post by fallen on Jun 7, 2014 16:16:16 GMT -5
contributor - lol, awesome. I have added #HOS-2452 to make the formatting of "Weak vs. Everything" better!
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Boost up Ferocity until it kills in one hit, so when something absolutely has to die, it dies, then boost up CB for normal swings and high consistency/low SP/high damage output. They are made to be used together imo- flexibility in sp cost...
