Group Build Optimization Thread

[En1gma]

Ok. In the name of progress. There have been many awesome group ideas bounced around all over the place and I figured that since there were so many different ways we could all play these groups, we should post our favorite group concepts here. Then, like contributor and myself are doing, test these builds in game, but slightly differently to see how best to build these groups out. Understandably there will be issues- I'm sure he plays on a much higher difficulty than I most of the time (I play all my games on normal, but if a group concept is strong, it should be able to perform on any difficulty)

Nevertheless here goes. The build concept I'm currently working on: 

Electrickening:
(A very rough outline)
A Dex based, Dual Wield Vraes boosted by Strickening and Thundering Blades, using primarily Crushing Blow to boost damage well over the armor threshold (he just hit for 56 and 46 dam first fight out off the Waystation btw).
Fy is focusing on ZS to capitalize on her Strickening.
Vincent is focused on evening out Debuffs before jacking up Thundering Blades to a high output for that extra damage and acc (stacks w Strickening to do major damage)
Selen wil be working a 2ap high acc dagger to deliver Punishing Blades, while also using a 3ap bow (higher acc and range) to deliver Pinning Shot.

Post your own concepts here and if you like one that you see, please try it out and tell us all how you did! 

[fallen]

How about, as you post your concept, provide a title and put it in bold at the top of the post. Someone (contributor?) posted an awesome group concept called The Iron Curtain, etc. It will give us a moniker by which to refer to each design.

[En1gma]

One of my favorite group designs, by the way- The Iron Curtain. Good call, fallen and I'll name it as soon as I can think of one

[contributor]

Ok, I've got the same build going on Brutal. I just didn't think they had what they needed for Nightmare. And I was pretty glad for that as somehow they managed to meet a Giant Rat in the Ratkin storage cavern in the escape from Red Hill. It was lots of fun; Hunds>Giant Rat>Orcin.

So my group features a Dexterity Vraes and then includes Vincent, Fyona and Selen, it's named, The Replacements So Far and might just be a test case for future groups with the dueler. My build is a little different than En1gma's.

Vraes is going Dual-Wielding with light blades which is no different, but he will focus on Savage Sweep rather than CB and then BoS and SSk. May add small amounts of NM.

Selen will balance QsD, PB and FB with maybe a few points in DoS eventually. Getting a few more move points is huge. She is a pretty standard cursing melee fighter.

Vincent is going all Thundering Blades and Flash Freeze until he can get to his level 18 attack spell. It's going to be crazy to have no points in attack for him until then.

Fyona is actually going to try Battlefield Devotion (a first for me) and Shield of Cotias to supplement Vraes and Selen's dodginess. I'm still waffling between Zealous Strikes and Strickening. Strickening is hard because you have to spread your talent points a lot to make it work. I've got a little time to decide.

I'm a little worried that the group is going to be a late bloomer and might not be that much fun through episode 1 and then they might get their buts kicked in episode 2.

[tenbsmith]

This'll be interesting. Enigma's focus on Crushing versus Lurker's focus on Savage may be different optimal builds for different levels of difficulty. As long as you can get your hero to hit consistently with Crushing, the added damage makes it better than Savage. I've read here that at higher levels of difficulty, it becomes difficult to hit enemies since they're higher level, so accuracy is important, thus the accuracy bonus of Savage is critical. My current build, playing on Hard, Vraes hits most opponents consistently, but needs Savage to hit the Giant Rats consistently.

[En1gma]

Having fun with it so far feel free to post your own ideas for the thread- remember we can't test them if we don't know about them  

contributor- imho and its your build- do you think Strickening might be important for your group since you aren't going to have much extra damage from SSw? It could really help with stacking that damage up, esp once you get further. Let me know how you do =)

[En1gma]

Since fallen mentioned it, I'll post the group again here: 

Iron Curtain (V2)

Vraes will be full blown defensive, wielding the heaviest Shield and Mace he can carry. Talents will be focused heavily into Phalanx Shield, SSk, and Natural Mastery. Main attacks will likely be CB and FEROCITY (always in caps =) and will connect because of effective cursing from both KJ and Selen, as well as a high NM. I don't usually pick both Leadership talents alongside Lore talents, but it is necessary here. Heavy pointage into Constitution and Str, with supporting points into INT to pay for his talents.

Fyona will be shoulder to shoulder with Vraes and will also be defensively minded. She too will be carrying a shield and 1h mace, in order to have the highest Parry she can obtain. Main Talents will include Shield of Cortias for added defensive for both her and Vraes (the main reason Vraes is also investing heavily into Phalanx is so he can have the most jacked up parry he can have as a character) and depending on if Righteous Fervor gets improved, she will be investing in that, as well. Main attacks will be keeping Vealous Strikes and Consecrated Defense at a 1:2 ratio, with focus on CD in order to further improve her already impressive defensive capabilities. points will be focused into both Constitution and Willpower, while keeping up on STR.

KJ will be focusing on leveling CA and FB pretty much the same level, maybe a point or two more into FB eventually. He will also level Pureflame Shield to bolster both armor and resistance (I'm sensing a theme here!) I had been thinking about Burning Blades, but in order to keep him focused, I will most likely forgo it to keep FB and CA running strong. Goals in combat are to curse everything in sight, then to mop up with a high level FB- he and Selen are the main damage desalers before they get to my shield walls, so he needs to be highly effective- whatever he cant kill he will be cursing into uselessness.

Selen will be focused on 3ap bows in order to reach out and curse someone. She is focused only on raising Bows and PS. Once Dance of Shadows becomes available, she will invest until she gets an extra 2mp. She will also put some points into Sly Look- no use being able to hit enemies 9 spaces away on the first turn if you cant see them! Once she is able to hit an entire group and strip them of their AP, she will be in great shape. With both her and KJ stripping Dodge and Parry, everything that they cant kill will be childishly easy for a fully buffed Fyona and Vraes to both withstand, and then decimate.

Getting further in the game- I've gone through the NorthVault and Nordhall now we're working on Korvains Trench. This group absolutely maces things in the face. I've held off on the 3ap Bows until later in the game- one PS goes to the largest  AoE and I find a better versionfind of them. Please give this one a shot ifyou like it- try to improve upon it if you can and let me know! I love this group!

[contributor]

Ah, with the new update, this group might really get put on the shelf for awhile.

[En1gma]

Iron Curtain Update:

Hi everyone. It has taken me some time, but I've just gotten past the Great Shaman, and this seems like a good time to post my current thoughts and progress on this amazing group.

Vraes: Big V is an indomitable fortress, one of two in this build. He is able to stand toe to toe with any number of enemies, and laugh at their crumpled corpses. He consistently hits from 40-60 damage, sometimes 30+ when up against heavier armor. 
Stats: 10 str, 4 dex, 8 const, 5 wil, 3 int and kno. He has 9 hammer, and 3 leadership and lore. 
Talents: CB 3, SSk 3, Phalanx 3. Simple but brutally effective. V will not be putting points into Mastery until much later. I find that he is better off buffing other stats than his weapon. With gear and group buffs, he is at 34 armor, has 8 parry, and 11 for resistances. He just stands there and crushes things like a maniac while taking very litte damage from anything- including archers due to his massive armor total.

Fyona: Uber tank number two. She isn't dealing as much damage as V, but she hits consistently for 30-40(5) damage per hit, and with great accuracy, due to curse support and a bonus from Zealous Strikes.
Stats: 7 str, 4 dex, 7 const, 5 wil, 6 int, 4 kno. 6 hammers, 5 lore.
Talents: ZS 1, Consecrated Defense 3, SoC 2, and Aura 3. She didn't bother getting Aura 3 until after the Shaman- they never took more dmage than she was able to heal in a turn so it wasn't a big deal to me. In a typical battle, she usually gets put on the side of the shamans, because she has crazy good resistances due to Pureflame Shield and CD. Combat is pretty straight forward- she targets the cursed enemies set up by Pinning Shot and Choking Ash. ZS sets up CD, then if I want to conserve SP I use Hammer Blow on the next, or use ZS again for added accuracy. She is a very steady character and spends much of her time (V as well on this) waiting for the enemies to make it to them under fire from Selen and KJ.

Kjartan: Simplest build he has ever seen from me, by far. Nukes for 25- 40 damage after Ash.
Stats: 7 will, 8 int, 7 kno. 6 sorcery, 6 Conj.
Talents: FB 3, CA 4, and Pureflame Shield 3. That's it. He often doesn't directly attack anything at all until everything in sight is Choking on a lung full of Ash. Pureflame Shield is vital to this group build, as it adds to an already high armor count- V has both Phalanx and SSk, while Fy boosts armor with CD. Once everything is thoroughly cursed, he goes straight to work picking off enemy archers and weakening distant melee combatants for V and Fy to splatter cross the underdeep.

Selen: Simple build, simple job. Icewood bow crushes for now until I can get to Riven and invest in a 3ap bow. I may forgoe this however, if i find that enemies are close enough to reach with a 6 range weapon.
Stats: 7 dex, 5 const, 9 intel. 10 bows, 4(11) stealth
Talents: Pinning Shot 5, Dance of Shadows 2. Selen has settled happily into a curse role and with her and KJ dual cursing mobs, V and Fy rarely miss anything. AoE is important to this build, and PS is just what the healer ordered. Not only does she deal great damage (plus ice damage from the bow!) but she is also stripping Dodge, Parry, and the all-important AP from the enemy.

Rundown: This group is able to handle literally every challenge I've come across. We marched, in formation, all the way up to where the GS was respawning, and didn't even break a sweat. Deathkin? No fakin problem- 2 combat rounds and they crumple like paper. Normal melee fighters are less than a problem and archers are picked off before they can cause too much damage. Stay in formation, utilize choke-points, and the underdeep is your oyster. Seriously though- if you haven't tried a build like this one you are missing out. My hands hurt, I'm done, lol. I ope you enjoyed the novel =)

[fallen]

En1gma - wow, you are going to love the upcoming changes to Phalanx Shield - next release!

My absolute favorite wizard is the Ash Wizard. What an element to pick

[crimsonshadow]

Ooooo...Fallen, I can't wait for the PS update with my current preferred group... Should be sweet... Thanks for always listening to your community. <waiting like a kid for Christmas>

[En1gma]

fallen I honestly can't wait to have that extra defense against arrows you were talking about! Tell Cory to code faster!!  Lol you guys rock : )

[agamon]

I recently started a group on brutal and it's going well. I have no illusions that I won't get massacred in episode 2, but so far this is ridiculously effective:

Vraes, only focusing on stoneskin. 9 str, 4 int - 6 ranks stoneskin : 448 hp and 38 armour - at level 6 - he's a monster. Him and Kyera could clean entire areas.
Skills: 7 hammers, 3 lore, wielding two handed hammer.

Kyera: 8 int, tears to rank 4 (just enough to heal the extra stoneskin hp with one cast) holy retribution 2 : 298 mana - she's so much more fun to play with retribution. Sure, investing in anguish is "more optimal" but it's not as fun. Since Vraes uses up his sp the fastest, I purposely "waste" this girls sp on attacks to finish off enemies.
Skills: 8 invocation

Tamilin 9 dexterity : farsight 2, black night 3, deadly intuition 1. The only party member I'm (slightly) unhappy about: it seems I'm going to need to invest in stealth a lot more seriously in brutal than in normal and I don't like it. I'm half tempted to just give up on it but ambushes without first strike are stupid deadly. Heck they're the only thing pressuring me, when I miss initiative.
Skills: bows 7

Kjartian 9 int, fire bolt 3, ash 4: 311 mana and he packs a punch! I often hold back on killing stuff with him but at the beginning it was trivial to kill melee before they closed into melee range if they only approached one or two at time, which they did due to my excessive use of positioning. This guy is fun to play!

Now how it all works: it's a very mana light group, heck the main reason to go to town is to restore the fighters sp.. Which is a little funny. I will have to raise his int more. The buff penalty is brutal on, well, brutal so it's rare that one cast works for two fights, so I've stopped pre-buffing before encounters and only cast stoneskin if I know a big fight may happen, or if I see archers.

Since I have great ranged dps, I can kill stuff (spiders, beetles, rat melee) before they close in, or within one turn of them closing in, except in big battles ofc. But this is the fun thing: I can choose to play mana intensively, or just save it and kill slower. 

But to give you an idea how well this is working.. You know when you're approaching the east farmland near Oskahold? I messed up, I wanted to place Vraes so he cut off the melee's path so only two hit him at a time. I parked him one square too far south and he was surrounded by all sides by ROUS, ratkin warriors, while in range of all the archers and shaman.

I used Kyera to reduce attacks on shaman and ROUS, and then went to town. He was barely pressured. I had to heal him every second turn, but I was killing stuff just fine. Then I recalled there's a rest just after this attack and stopped holding back... Two ratkin warriors died per turn, and very soon I was no longer worried about healing him much at all. ROUS had a high ac so he sometimes missed with one of those massive 50 dmg swings of his, which was annoying, but the ROUS did limited damage to him.

I realized that I could easily hold that bridge for 100 turns if I wanted. Sure, V would run out of juice, but one little mana potion and he'd be back in business.

Picture most archers doing 0 and 1 damage, and occasionally, 2-5, and rarely, 7. To a health pool of 450. That gets 200 health back for 24 spirit out of 300...

...yeah not exactly trembling about this encounter

But it did encourage me to try the troll right away! I figured, lvl 6 vs a lvl 13 troll on brutal would be a fair fight!! XD amusingly, it ended up being a boring fight. I couldn't hit the damn troll! Over 60% of all attacks missed, with Tamilin and Kjartan hitting most often, but for pitiful damage, big V missing those 50 dmg swings waaaay too often, I was merely doing 50 dmg per round vs his 500.. If at all.. Long story short: I had to recast stoneskin and it took two rounds of the troll at ten hps for Kyera to land her spell and kill it ( I was trying to give her the kill)

So which difficulties if any have I had? I refuse to use potions (I'm cheap!) so the last fight when escaping the dungeons everyone was at half health when it started, Kyera went down to ONE health before I managed to run her away from the Orcin who took a liking to her, dogs were down to 0AP though so I survived. Close call though, even if totally my fault for being cheap

Also when I entered the east farm, I lost initiative in the big ambush: Tamilin dodged all the arrows she got - she did not dodge the two melee that got her down to 1/4th health. Kyera didn't dodge anything, she went down to nothing almost. I ran KJ and Tami into the north caves past everything, knowing they'd be pincushions but already aware tami could dodge most attacks I was only somewhat worried: drank one small health potion on tami, drank a big one with Kyera, moved V so he'd get aggro from the melee chasing Kyera, which only worked for some - and had Kyera run around the corner back into the cave to meet with KJ and friend.

Next turn I nuked two archers, moved V to kill the third, debuffd the melee chasing Kyera, and moved outside his range. After that it was smooth sailing.

But yeah... I'm horribly vulnerable to anyone but V taking the damage. Hence why I fully expect to die in ep2. But here so far it's been A blast!

[En1gma]

New Phalanx Shield makes that Iron Curtain  build sooooooo much tastier. Not only does my V have 40 armor, now he blocks a quarter of all ranged attacks (for now...)? This might be my golden build, everyone.....

[Cory Trese]

I am very excited to see how these builds threads evolve when we drop ladders =)