Can Phalanx Shield Replace Stone Skin?

[contributor]

I'm trying a lot of things that I haven't before with my current group. One of the biggest things is trying to forgo Stone Skin in favor of Phalanx Shield. So far I'm really doubting my choice. The extra parry isn't helping him avoid many attacks and he's just taking too much damage, which is bad because Fyona is my biggest damage dealer, but she uses all of her AP trying to keep Vraes alive.

Has anyone else successfully used Phalanx Shield with Vraes. Was it in combination with Stone Skin or not?

This group might be a slow burn and I have some other things that might come on-line later to make it worthwhile but for the moment I'm wondering how I'm going to make it to the Great Shaman.

[fallen]

contributor - great question. I've had just started a Phalanx Shield group yesterday, hoping to answer a very similar question.

I have used in the past, but only with Stone Skin. I am not sure I would recommend a Vraes build that forgoes Stone Skin entirely, regardless of your other talents.

Speaking of, what are you combining with PS? Is it an archers issue, as PS is only going to up Parry and won't help with ranged.

The question I was trying to answer is "Is PS good enough?"

[contributor]

I'm actually trying to build a very defensive Vraes, but one that's based on damage avoidance. I don't think I've got him in the ideal group for that though because he would be better with some other buffs that increase his dodge and parry and maybe with a spell that reduces enemy accuracy. Later Tamilin will add Silent Stalker which will add some -accuracy but I'm not really supporting Vraes with much else. He's also using Natural Mastery (more melee defense) and Burst of Speed (a little dodge and maneuverability). For the moment I'm forgoing any attack talents for him as I was hoping he would be a sponge to let Fyona come in and just kill kill kill behind him. I'm toying with giving him more dexterity.

I'm not finding this combination stellar, but I'm thinking it might work better against Arhaive's goons than against Ratkin.

At the moment I'm not finding Phalanx shield to be worth it, but I will press on with the experiment.

Why I choose to experiment on Nightmare, I may never know.

[contributor]

It seems like maybe the added armor should at least be on par with Stone Skin since SS gets the HP bonus and later Earth Resist. You guys have probably run more simulations though.

[fallen]

contributor - nice to be looking at the same thing at the same time Continued balance testing on the Dueler's defensive prowess brought me back to looking at PS.

[contributor]

If I wasn't trying to do some many experiments at one time I think I could do PS better. If you did it in the original group of heroes and supported it with Meteoric Shockwave, Warder's Shield and some Ethereal Anguish (which also doinks enemy accuracy) I think it could fit in quite well. As it is though, I think it needs a lot more careful thinking than Stone Skin. And of course if you're doing the group I just mentioned, why not wait until Kincaid is out and have a true dodge/parry tank and put him beside Selen who will also reap the benefits?

Hmmmm, what would make PS more attractive?...? Causes Vraes' shield to glow?

One thing that would be crazy would be to have a curse that is cast on any enemy that hits you. It would be the reverse of Fyona's attack buffs. When PS is in play, any enemy that successfully attacks Vraes gets -accuracy or -damage or -ap for the next 2 turns.

[En1gma]

SSk, PS, Pureflame Shield, and SoC makes for a hell of a defensive Outlander. I've settled nicely into my Iron Curtain build, focusing all of my time and effort into holding the line. I would never just forgo SSk unless Phalanx got a good boost.

[John Robinson]

I once did a test of Phalanx Shield in EP1 A1. Raised it to seven just to see what would happen.  It did work very well when he was 
surrounded by melee fighters.  They just kept swinging and missing, but I had to keep raising it to match the monsters as they
leveled to enjoy the benefit.  If I was taking the same design into EP2 A1, I'd be sure to purchase that great +7 Parry shield.

Archers still shredded him.  Warders Shield and + Dodge equipment helped.  Vincent's Frigid Air can also be a big help.

I think your experiment in making him a defensive fighter next to Fyona during battle is a really inspired idea that could work with great success. 

[fallen]

contributor - glowing shield - amazing suggestion.

On the balance, it's an important time to be looking at it, because Kincaid is imminent with all of his amazing talents. He'll have a different style certainly, but I want to make sure that there aren't any Talents that aren't up to snuff in Vraes' bag.

[tenbsmith]

I have a Vraes part way into E2 on Hard with a focus on Phalanx and Berserk (both Leadership based). Natural was also leveled up some and used regularly. Stone was mostly ignored and no Burst at all. The group included Kyera, so Warder's and Ethereal were used in support. Despite missing the Shield Guard's Tunic from the excavation site, this build worked reasonably well up to Orcin Stronghold. At that point I started my current group on a different device and haven't gone back Phalanx Vraes.

My current Vraes is Lore focused (Stone, Natural, Burst) and working very well, but he rarely makes Arhaive's troops miss. I'm trying to decide if it would be worth investing in more Warder's and Burst to decrease the hits he's taking.

[fallen]

tenbsmith - "this build worked reasonably well up to Orcin Stronghold" - at this point did you drop the group because Vraes was inoperable? Do you mind opening the game and sharing your PS level?

[tenbsmith]

fallen, Vraes was working well at that point. His buffs didn't last that long b/c I divided point allocation between Lore and Leadership based Talents. So, he had to rebuff frequently. This was frustrating when it occurred during battle (a buff status bar might help with that).

The Phalanx group entered the Orcin Stronghold twice with Tamilin in the lead, failed to gain surprise, and she got killed in the first round of combat both times. The group did well up to that point. I seem to recall that some groups of Orcin caused the group to use all its SP. I'm pretty sure the Phalanx group would be able to clear the Orcin Stronghold if I put Vraes in the lead or gained surprise. At the time, I was frustrated and decided to start a new group. While my Phalanx group was viable, I had made several minor errors that nagged me--spreading Kyera too thin, not enough Deadly Intuition and Stealth for Tamilin, too much Dexterity for Kjartan, etc. Further I liked the idea of a Vraes with high Lore and, therefore, long duration Lore-based buffs.

I'll report back on his Phalanx level when I get home (that game is on my Kindle). I could go back and take another whack at the Orcin Stronghold with the Phalanx group if you'd like.

[fallen]

tenbsmith - don't worry about picking the group back up, the feedback is valuable as is. A buff counter will definitely help as we've been discussing in the other thread. Also, Sustainment incantations can go a long way, and you can now get some Tomes in the E2A2 content.

[tenbsmith]

Selection of melee weapon is also important with Phalanx. I used swords for the Phalanx build, and the extra parry that comes with a sword undoubtedly helped. The low parry of hammers might not work with Phalanx.

[agamon]

Hi everyone,

I recently found this game on the ipad and I've been experimenting a bit, I've only reached until the shaman with two builds, but I have the following experience to share:

My first play through I had natural mastery (+parry and to hit), a shield (+3 parry), a 1h sword (+3 parry), shield of cortias from the paladin, pure flame shield 3 from the wizard - yet no stone skin. I was trying to create a very tanky Vraes and tanky paladin, but I didn't realize just how crazy powerful stone skin is. Or stated differently, I didn't realize how crazy weak the other talents are compared to stone skin. Allow me to elaborate:

My current run, Vraes has only stone skin. That's it. No mastery, no quicken dodge bonus, no paladin to buff him, no wizard buffs. And to make it more amusing, I gave him a two handed hammer. He has issues hitting stuff because I haven't allocated his weapon skill yet (!!) just to experiment with how little parry seemed to do for him, and yeah,sure enough, this version is FAR FAR tankier AND deadlier than the other build. There were several big ambushes that caused a near wipe in the other party, and here I'm laughing at them. I'm not even pressured. Heck I brought the cleric instead of the paladin and I'm not bothering debuffing most enemies.

In normal fights I use the cleric to deal a little damage with her little hammer (a shame she can't use 2h hammers) and the wizard flinging fireballs. I try to not get Vraes to swing or tamilin to shoot, because they get experience WAY too quickly and easily during the big fights: Vraes one shots some enemies, Tamilin tears them apart with empowered arrows, mage tears them apart with fireballs and debufffs the enemies I plan Vraes melee, and the cleric laughingly keeps up with what little damage Vraes takes.

Frankly, if the paladin had a mana efficient single target heal I'd swap her in a heart beat because then I could use her as a main damage dealer during fights instead of wasting her actions pointlessly debuffing enemies just so the round goes quicker (archers doing only 1 shot that does 0 to 5 pts of dmg still take time..) whereas the other build without stone skin, large groups of archers were deadly, and while the parry helped, it never helped quite enough that I could afford to neglect melee threat and go for archers, nor could I kill them quickly enough even if it did, without some AOE or something.

Still, I don't think stone skin is overpowered, even if I make it sound like it is: I am playing normal and I fully expect an easy ride from normal if using good tactics (choke points behind a wall to force enemies to walk around and only engage a few at a time, talents that complement each other, etc etc.) - if anything this is what I expect of my tank. To be tanky.

I think it's a bit ridiculous though that my SHIELD and SHIELD TALENTS don't protect from arrows though. If I were to design them. I would make certain that they added either a dodge bonus instead of a parry bonus, or added the ability to parry (block) arrows while a shield is equipped.

On a side note, I think the talent that boosts speed is way too expensive in spirit. The first build, to add insult to injury, had to resort to potions to keep his meagre dodge bonuses up through all fights, which he desperately needed. If necessary increase how many APs it is to activate, but it really should be half the current cost, again specially when compared to how little it does for you vs stone skin.

Of course, since I'm no expert, I just offer this as is for whatever it's worth.