Gender roles in the game

[kyreastronghammer]

I've been playing for awhile now and I really enjoy playing the game. I got stuck fighting Vulnak and came to this forum to find a few pointers, which there's an awesome write up over in the Tips and Techniques section. I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggled with the Cult Temple.  

But since I'm here, I would like to take this time to voice thoughts on the gender roles in the game and some concern that all the women in the game seem to have impossible body types.

I'm a girl gamer and I've gotten used to the inequality in how female characters are treated in video games. Because of that I'm glad to see the female NPC's in Heroes of Steel represent a wide range of roles and character types.  From merchants to rulers, female NPC's play an equal role in the plot.

I'm also really pleased to see Fyona be a tough melee fighter. It seems too many games use stereotypes that playable female characters must be physically weak magic users or quick, but still physically weak, archers or thieves.  I can't even count how many games use a female elf archer or human priestess as the token female characters. It's as if women aren't worthy unless they are not-human or depend on their power from an male-gender god.  It's also great that the 13 Children have better gender equality than most games when it comes to the duties of the deities.

So the developers have done a really good job of gender equality in the game. As a girl-gamer and consumer, I appreciate. 

Which leads to my one, tiny little concern: How many women really have the body types the game seems to think is a the norm? Large busts, ultra thin waists, curves in all the right places? It's nice there's a few non-supermodel women in the game, but do you really think every girl in a post shattering world is going to have access to a plastic surgeon and first world make up kits? 

Can we get a NPC female that's as ugly, well developed and respected for her abilities as Balgair?

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the post. I'm glad that the game, at least in part, has met your desires for more balanced gender roles.

At this point, we've only released the first 2 of 4 Episodes. There are many releases, and more stories ahead.

We will do our best to incorporate your feedback into the game content that's still under development.

We appreciate you taking the time to post and thanks for playing Heroes of Steel RPG!

[crimsonking]

Gender roles are presented quite distinctively in this game. 50% of the PCs are female and competent, and there are several competent female NSCs as well. No damsels in distress, no women in refrigerators, no fighting fuck toys (am I allowed to use that word here?). In terms of gender equality, this game is for the most part perfect. There is really nothing to really complain about, well, except for Selen's picture. That one's, simply put, anatomic nonsense (my wife had a laugh in this one). But I really doubt there is intention behind that one and would rather blame it on the expandable abilities of the graphics designer.

We've seen some discussions on gender presentation in video games lately, and mostly it is a discussion that is long overdue to be had. I just can't see why HoS should be a viable target in this.

[Cory Trese]

With every game we make, we try to improve our artwork, mechanics and gameplay.

The original post by kyreastronghammer represents her thoughts and feelings from the game -- for her, it sounds like the game isn't as good as it could be, but she was kind enough to post and give us something to think about for future efforts.

We have invested some of our recent Kickstarter funds in a set of anatomy and drawing classes for fallen to help him work on character concept art and development.

Balgair was designed by a member of the Kickstarter team, and I expect that Star Traders 2 will feature many more exciting characters based on our fans. I hope the real person behind the Balgair portrait doesn't take offense at this thread. Hopefully he knows we love him =)

[vdx]

Oct 17, 2014 15:48:41 GMT -5 crimsonking said:

"...We've seen some discussions on gender presentation in video games lately, and mostly it is a discussion that is long overdue to be had. I just can't see why HoS should be a viable target in this..."

I don't think kyreastronghammer is making HoS a target for the gender debate. She states "So the developers have done a really good job of gender equality in the game" and segues into the body-type discussion with  "Which leads to my one, tiny little concern
"

I read her post more of a -Hey, you've done an awesome job. Here's a little bump that could be sanded down.- type of bit. I think we all kind of get the eye-candy / defies the laws of physics physique of Selen and maybe to a much lessor extent a few NPCs.

I would caution that this thread doesn't become a flame war against people voicing a concern about gender roles. As crimsonking stated, "it is a discussion that is long overdue." Feedback about gender roles is a legit topic, even if HoS is by heads and shoulders above industry norms. 

For the younger gamers, and I'm dating myself, the gender role debate is present but less intense than it has been in the past. Remember for years, videos games reduced women to helpless princesses that needed saving (Mario Bors, etc) or objectified rewards for playing the game (Dragon Quest, etc). Even Metroid, now famous for it's female hero, hid the gender of the hero until you beat the game, which few did. Nintendo did't want to alienate male gamers by having them play a female hero.

Kudos to HoS staff for leading the pack. Kudos for them willing to hear feedback and take it into consideration. 

[xdesperado]

At risk of igniting said flame war...growing up I was an extremely skinny nerd...got made fun of plenty irl because of my physic or rather lack of one.
RPGs gave me a chance to be the Arnold Schwarzenegger / Lou Ferigno Muscle bound type of hero I wasn't in real life when I wanted.

Instead of slamming games for portraying women or men as supermodel/extreme body builders why can't people accept them as the fantasy they are and embrace the opportunity at least in a game to pretend to something that realistically 99% of the worlds population will never be?

I get that most women aren't built like that unless they've had extensive surgery, just like most men dont look like Vraes unless they are fanatical body builders resorting to unhealthy practices and possibly even steroids.

It's fantasy, I want my heroes to look like movie star heroes not my mother or the pimple faced kid pumping gas at the local filling station.

Throughout history the portrayal in art and literature of heroes and gods has been of idealized perfection for their culture and not the average person in that society. Would portraying a female PC as flat chested and slightly overweight really make people any happier or less critical?

Someone someplace can and will always find something to complain about that's part of life, let's not let that spoil the fun for the majority.

[slayernz]

Hey, I look like Vraes. Somewhat. Sorta. Slightly. Notsomuch. Actually I might look more like a cat than vraes, but can appreciate the artistic design of our fearless leader.

I too noticed the char portrait of Selen even as far back as the alpha when she was originally Tami. was going to mention it to fallen but Tami changed and the point was forgotten.

kyreastronghammer thank you for your great feedback ... I can assure you that it hasn't fallenI on deaf ears as Cory Trese and fallen are probably two of the most proactive developers around, and I've been in the software industry for almost 15 years. think the reason why there are no 'balgairs' of the female persuasion is because fallen hadn't been able to bring himself to 'uglify' the, let's face it, fairer sex. it will be funny seeing him go to anatomy drawing lessons ... let's hope they teach him how to draw ultra ripped bipedal cats

[fallen]

Oct 17, 2014 15:24:14 GMT -5 kyreastronghammer said:

So the developers have done a really good job of gender equality in the game. As a girl-gamer and consumer, I appreciate. 

Thank you for the encouragement, we are always trying to do better, and I am proud of how Heroes has turned out. It's great to see that you appreciate the different ways in which we have promoted powerful characters in both sexes.

Your one concern is the art, which I think is a good thing. From my perspective, the issue is that I am a self-trained artist, who first picked up a pen four years ago. I am learning as fast as I can, but I have a long way to go. If you examine the Vraes' portrait, you'll find the same glaring issues with anatomy as you will find in Selen's artwork.

I think as a pair of developers / artist, you'll hear Cory Trese and I say over and over again "We will do our best to continue to improve."

And we will.

Thanks!

[ntsheep]

[Officer Genious]

Oct 17, 2014 15:24:14 GMT -5 kyreastronghammer said:

I've been playing for awhile now and I really enjoy playing the game. I got stuck fighting Vulnak and came to this forum to find a few pointers, which there's an awesome write up over in the Tips and Techniques section. I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggled with the Cult Temple.  

But since I'm here, I would like to take this time to voice thoughts on the gender roles in the game and some concern that all the women in the game seem to have impossible body types.

I'm a girl gamer and I've gotten used to the inequality in how female characters are treated in video games. Because of that I'm glad to see the female NPC's in Heroes of Steel represent a wide range of roles and character types.  From merchants to rulers, female NPC's play an equal role in the plot.

I'm also really pleased to see Fyona be a tough melee fighter. It seems too many games use stereotypes that playable female characters must be physically weak magic users or quick, but still physically weak, archers or thieves.  I can't even count how many games use a female elf archer or human priestess as the token female characters. It's as if women aren't worthy unless they are not-human or depend on their power from an male-gender god.  It's also great that the 13 Children have better gender equality than most games when it comes to the duties of the deities.

So the developers have done a really good job of gender equality in the game. As a girl-gamer and consumer, I appreciate. 

Which leads to my one, tiny little concern: How many women really have the body types the game seems to think is a the norm? Large busts, ultra thin waists, curves in all the right places? It's nice there's a few non-supermodel women in the game, but do you really think every girl in a post shattering world is going to have access to a plastic surgeon and first world make up kits? 

Can we get a NPC female that's as ugly, well developed and respected for her abilities as Balgair?

Most don't, but most guys don't have Vraes's body type either. A few women who were around for the alpha pictures at least got some good giggles out of that (I want whatever she has on!), but its not an uncommon mistake artists (males in particular) make.

Frankly, I was more disturbed at Vraes's scooped-out back-- he looks malnourished to me. I believe someone joked that it was really because the Trese brothers had to Photoshop something out... And posted an 'unedited' pic of Vraes connected to the lower-half of a horse, cenetar style.

That being said, its a good point. I'm hoping to make some female captains in the upcoming ST2 Alpha and I'll be on high alert for physics-defying knockers. XD

[xdesperado]

Officer Genious lol on the physics defying knockers.
Amusing but true story, my mother's last boss had been a professional singer when younger and nature had cursed her with an overabundance shall we say...by the time I met her she'd had breast surgery....to reduce them, and was only sporting double Ds.

[slayernz]

[slayernz]

[ntsheep]

[xdesperado]