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Post by achilles73 on Dec 24, 2016 10:25:25 GMT -5
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Post by fallen on Dec 24, 2016 12:25:26 GMT -5
Whenever you enter an area, you can open the in-game menu and the name of the location is printed above your score. |
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 24, 2016 12:44:57 GMT -5
Whenever you enter an area, you can open the in-game menu and the name of the location is printed above your score. I know. But the map says there is a path from Platinum Heights to the Lost Shrine, and I cannot find it - even though I am running around the map and online for hours in fact. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 24, 2016 14:01:56 GMT -5
And that is why Kincaid is the best tank in the game. Sure parry gives you certainty. In testing Vraes and Selen, their tanking can and will fail. I'm curious as to what you think of Vraes legendary armor, if you've tried it, in regards to ironmanning. |
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 24, 2016 14:04:28 GMT -5
And that is why Kincaid is the best tank in the game. Sure parry gives you certainty. In testing Vraes and Selen, their tanking can and will fail. I'm curious as to what you think of Vraes legendary armor, if you've tried it, in regards to ironmanning. Post, dammit!  |
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Post by sandman68 on Dec 24, 2016 14:17:38 GMT -5
it is..... .... ... ...
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phaze
Exemplar
Posts: 368 
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Post by phaze on Dec 24, 2016 14:28:37 GMT -5
And that is why Kincaid is the best tank in the game. Sure parry gives you certainty. In testing Vraes and Selen, their tanking can and will fail. I'm curious as to what you think of Vraes legendary armor, if you've tried it, in regards to ironmanning. Never gotten a Vraes that far in the game. He is my least favorite character. My impression is that armor in this game doesn't compare at all to Avoidance tanks. While his armor seems great, it is too far into the game for me to think about. |
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Post by fallen on Dec 24, 2016 14:41:25 GMT -5
Never gotten a Vraes that far in the game. He is my least favorite character. My impression is that armor in this game doesn't compare at all to Avoidance tanks. While his armor seems great, it is too far into the game for me to think about. Wild. The group I am taking through the latest E4 content is a Vraes group, and I've been loving his Juggernaut killfests. Yesterday, he had a turn where he scored 6 individual kills, slaughtering 4 on the top end of the screen and then stomping halfway across the battlefield (8 MP) to slaughter the shaman and his elite guard. He ran the field red with blood and everyone else was standing around, "Ahhh ... going to leave any for us?" |
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phaze
Exemplar
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Post by phaze on Dec 24, 2016 15:05:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I know the numbers. I have a berserk Vraes into Ep 3. He gets some impressive numbers. I am tempted to respec for 10 juggernaut and 10 berserk for kicks.
But this Vraes is a glass cannon.
But the bottom line for me is that a selfish character is inefficient for nightmare iron man. The party has to excel, not just one character. And Kincaid is better for party unity and resilience. Sure parry is consistent in a way that a tank Vraes or Selen can't match. And FU eases equipment pressure enormously. AoE Kincaid kills more effectively for me than Vraes.
I've made my thoughts known on Vraes in other threads. He is not for me.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 24, 2016 15:54:24 GMT -5
Never gotten a Vraes that far in the game. He is my least favorite character. My impression is that armor in this game doesn't compare at all to Avoidance tanks. While his armor seems great, it is too far into the game for me to think about. Wild. The group I am taking through the latest E4 content is a Vraes group, and I've been loving his Juggernaut killfests. Yesterday, he had a turn where he scored 6 individual kills, slaughtering 4 on the top end of the screen and then stomping halfway across the battlefield (8 MP) to slaughter the shaman and his elite guard. He ran the field red with blood and everyone else was standing around, "Ahhh ... going to leave any for us?" I guess the question is survivability on nmi, there's no doubt high level jugg is fun on the player's turn, it's the enemy's turn that was in question... |
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 24, 2016 16:44:11 GMT -5
Wild. The group I am taking through the latest E4 content is a Vraes group, and I've been loving his Juggernaut killfests. Yesterday, he had a turn where he scored 6 individual kills, slaughtering 4 on the top end of the screen and then stomping halfway across the battlefield (8 MP) to slaughter the shaman and his elite guard. He ran the field red with blood and everyone else was standing around, "Ahhh ... going to leave any for us?" I guess the question is survivability on nmi, there's no doubt high level jugg is fun on the player's turn, it's the enemy's turn that was in question... So only Kincaid works as a tank in Nightmare? |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Dec 24, 2016 16:54:32 GMT -5
I guess the question is survivability on nmi, there's no doubt high level jugg is fun on the player's turn, it's the enemy's turn that was in question... So only Kincaid works as a tank in Nightmare? IDK, I only play test the storerooms on NM. The brother's insist their analytics show Vraes as a very successful late game character on high diff. Phaze and matrim aren't as fond of him though. Personally I like Kincaid mid game when his AoE hits its stride, but Vraes early and late (after jugg comes into its own), but like I said, I only build test on nm, only play easy-hard for main gameplay. edit: I should say gundamgoth, another nmi player, has said he has a soft spot for Vraes too. |
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phaze
Exemplar
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Post by phaze on Dec 24, 2016 17:50:46 GMT -5
So, Selen and Vraes absolutely can tank well. The issue is with iron man. One string of bad dice rolls is game over. Sure parry is a good buffer to remove the luck issue.
With Vraes, BR is an awesome damage talent but also reduces his ability to tank (-armor and parry). To increase his damage you lower his tankiness, this necessitating more talents to tank. Juggernaut is fun, but rqeuires 7 to 10 talent points for effective AP.
In iron man, talent points are in tight supply.
I find Kincaid to be much more streamlined in that CF is defense and attack all rolled into one. This is a smooth development path as opposed to worrying about BR going too high too quickly. Theoretically Vraes can be the best melee tank. If you invest 30 talent points minimizing damage.
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Dec 24, 2016 17:52:01 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with Vraes. He brings good damage and good tanking to any group. Kincaid has 3 things in his set that make him superior for an ironman flat out though:
1. Thrown weapons. This is huge. Tanks NEED to be on certain tiles at end turns to soak up as many enemy attacks as possible. Being able to shoot down the archer that is hanging back 3 squares and not having to deal with that extra damage is a big advantage.
2. Group buff in Flanking Unity. Accuracy is the most important offensive stat on nightmare, it is essential and needed in high numbers. Nothing offers 9 accuracy to the whole group and the damage is just icing on the cake. It replaces an episode 4 item on all characters and you get access to it by level 20.
3. Far and away the biggest advantage is Sure Parry. You are going to get bad rolls, it's impossible not to. When Kincaid rolls poorly against that Orcin Warlord who does up to 520 damage, he makes that damage disappear. Kincaid is anti-burst and lets you ignore almost all melee mobs in the game. This cannot be overstated, the fact that I can focus down 2 archers in the back and completely ignore the 7 melee mobs engaging Kincaid is such a large advantage that I cannot even consider Vraes for an ironman.
Vraes does have advantages but they are superior defensive stats (can still roll badly, worse stats against archers) and SLIGHTLY more damage. These simply aren't enough to make me consider him, although he can be fun to play for sure. My Kincaid is the top damage on my team in episode 4 with his legendary and can AoE. I have a hard time believing that Vraes can beat 1300 consistent damage (that is sans crits, he has a 28% crit chance) on a single target a turn and be able to AoE effectively for a single talent point.
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 24, 2016 17:58:02 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with Vraes. He brings good damage and good tanking to any group. Kincaid has 3 things in his set that make him superior for an ironman flat out though: 1. Thrown weapons. This is huge. Tanks NEED to be on certain tiles at end turns to soak up as many enemy attacks as possible. Being able to shoot down the archer that is hanging back 3 squares and not having to deal with that extra damage is a big advantage. 2. Group buff in Flanking Unity. Accuracy is the most important offensive stat on nightmare, it is essential and needed in high numbers. Nothing offers 9 accuracy to the whole group and the damage is just icing on the cake. It replaces an episode 4 item on all characters and you get access to it by level 20. 3. Far and away the biggest advantage is Sure Parry. You are going to get bad rolls, it's impossible not to. When Kincaid rolls poorly against that Orcin Warlord who does up to 520 damage, he makes that damage disappear. Kincaid is anti-burst and lets you ignore almost all melee mobs in the game. This cannot be overstated, the fact that I can focus down 2 archers in the back and completely ignore the 7 melee mobs engaging Kincaid is such a large advantage that I cannot even consider Vraes for an ironman. Vraes does have advantages but they are superior defensive stats (can still roll badly, worse stats against archers) and SLIGHTLY more damage. These simply aren't enough to make me consider him, although he can be fun to play for sure. My Kincaid is the top damage on my team in episode 4 with his legendary and can AoE. I have a hard time believing that Vraes can beat 1300 consistent damage (that is sans crits, he has a 28% crit chance) on a single target a turn and be able to AoE effectively for a single talent point. I cannot speak for list #1, since I have yet to try thrown weapons, but I can certainly vouch for #2 and #3. By the way, can you really do enough damage for the group if Kincaid is using thrown weapons? He is by far the main single-target burn specialist for me and can get 7-800 HP targets in a turn frequently (he averages better than 1/3 crit rate, and each crit is often over 500). I am not sure whether I'd be without his single target burst damage. As an aside, can someone tell me where the entrance to Lost Shrine is Platinum Heights? |
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