Fuel consumption bug?

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for the report, first I have heard of it. Added to the checks list.

[Fenikso]

I have just found what may be connected to the bug. The solar sail upgrades seems to make it happen.

Today I have bought a new ship, Pride of De Valtos. Flying it straight from the Star Dock:
Reported consumption: 2.839 [0.913]
Actual consumption: ~2.8 [~0.9]

But then I went back and bought "Nano-Solar Sail Coating (+6)" and installed +6 sails. Immediately I have noticed, that the reported and actual consumption does not match anymore:
Reported consumption: 3.589 [1.663] -- come on! I have just added more sail, should not it be better or at least the same?
Actual consumption: ~2.8 [~0.9] -- did not change

I have seen the same result (reported and actual consumption does not match anymore) with another ship and command sail upgrade. Unfortunately, I do not remember the ship class.

Here are some relevant data: Impossible, Pilot 30, Intimidate 1, Game turn 5339.

Hope that helps to nail it down. Please let me know if I may help any further.

[celu]

My Captain on Impossible woke up in cold sweat when he had a nightmare about running out of fuel when normally he would not have...then realized it wasn't a dream.

This change is a big deal. I was away for about 2 weeks and not really playing ST, just keeping up with updates. Then when I played yesterday, this nightmare happened.

This makes fuel cost so much higher now (on fast ships). My cargo space will be limited to carry all those fuel I need. I would have to think twice before pressing auto-pilot.
I have to retrain on lower difficulty, maybe crazy, to understand this changes and develop new strategies.
Spy Captain Celu the Fifteenth, code name: XenV on Impossible will have to take a vacation in the cryogenic tube for a while. Until I can download in his brain these changes.

Awesome update!
I always wondered what are we gonna do with all these slow and medium ships.

Will this make the Flagships (and heavier military grade ships) actually a viable option to own and fly around with? I never wanted to own one of those 'cause it looks like an overfed sitting mule with a big target on it's belly and a neon sign pointing to it that says free lunch, with a half piece of college ruled paper that says kick me, scotch taped on it's back.

[Cory Trese]

I am now finding in my games that if I raise Pilot, Stealth and install the correct upgrades that the Flagship and Dreadnought MK II are some of the toughest ships in the game.

With the new Fuel system rules I'm actually considering downplaying some of the price penalties on Fast/Quick ships because they're so much more expensive to fly around.

celu -- what say you about the pricing changes?

Fenikso -- What officers do you having on board? I will do some checking, of course, but I'm having trouble getting your report and the e-mails / testing to line up -- even when I enter all your data into the saved game editor. Any more details?

[slayernz]

One thing that still confuzzles me is that ships that are currently deemed "Fast" because they have heaps of sails compared to hull size .... I'd think they should have BETTER fuel consumption than a Slow ship (that has fewer sails). I can understand the Quick Agility thing cos more engines definitely chews up more fuel.

With the recent changes, the Honor of Javat has become a lot less efficient at flying around - but it shouldn't given it has a hull of 19 and starts with 50 sails. In fact, even after I whacked on an additional 12 sails (my fuel consumption was still greater than 0.7 in green). This captain has pilot of 54, and intimidate of 15, so shouldn't have a problem with getting the most out of this ship. It used to be zero or close to zero in green zone transits.

[Fenikso]

@cory - Pilot, Mechanic, Military. But I am seeing the problem even with my second character, who recently fired all of the officers (trying different strategy), so it is probably not tied to them.

It seems to me, that upgrading the sails makes the fuel report think that you have them still damaged. I have found that immediately after I purchase the upgrade, the fuel report goes higher (and at that time it probably matches the reality), but does not go back low when I purchase the missing sails.

I have tried it on Normal difficulty and I have upgraded my ship right away, but did not replicate the bug. Unfortunatelly it is much tougher to try it on Impossible, as you start with no money.

Cory, I can send you my game's data by e-mail, if you like. Would not that be easier?


slayernz - I have also found this to be weird recently. I was looking for a ship with a lot of sails to improve my fuel consumption. But wait! More sail = better fuel consumption. More sails = faster ship. Faster ship = worse fuel consumption. More sails = worse fuel consumption. What a?!

[Cory Trese]

This is exactly why I will be removing the relationship between Hull/Sails/Speed and setting the values myself. Fast ships will become incredibly rare, expensive and only be found on smaller hulls, which according to my new math models creates a more pleasant balance.

if you can e-mail me your saved game that would be great. [e-mail]

[Cory Trese]

Regarding the in game questions, I disagree with your interpretation of the ST universe =)

More sails will always drive improved fuel consumption in non-orbital transit.

Faster ships will always require more fuel for operation due to the nature of the hull's construction to withstand the speeds and forces involved.

The way Fenikso puts it is funny, but misses the point of the design by greatly over simplifying the compromises made by the various ships. Sorry that you don't like it, I'm working on changing some small parts of it, maybe you'll like it better after that.

Always trying to improve!

[celu]

Was testing today on crazy, as military officer. I don't know what to replace VV with. I like the changes on Thulun longbow, seem to hit puberty and looks like a NFL linebacker now.

Getting used to planning my fuel stops, I can't fall asleep or watch an inflight movie anymore. That sucks, I want to see Happy Gilmore again.

Cashflow seem to take a higher notch on my priority list and needed to be considered in every mission or leisure activity. Game is more engaging now.

If I fly a medium ship, my targets outrun me so it's hard to do bounty missions.
side? :how does predator tracking array helps again? Or the hunter's! special ability? I rarely play these characters.

So just like in real life where state troopers drive a Charger or sometimes an undercover Corvette and in Germany, they drive M3, MO and BH professions need to invest in Fast/quick ships. Or if doing blockades on a defensive stance, a heavier military grade ship.

Should a MO invest in negotiation coz the ships are kinda pricey.

[Fenikso]

Aug 31, 2011 9:53:49 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

If you can e-mail me your saved game that would be great.

Will do as soon as I get some more time to prepare exact situation for your testing. Hopefully today.

Aug 31, 2011 10:04:15 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

The way Fenikso puts it is funny, but misses the point of the design by greatly over simplifying the compromises made by the various ships.

Yeah, that is the way my brain works. It is kind of the professional deformation, as I do a lot of reverse-engineering tasks, I often end up over-simplificating things until "what a?" moment. Please, do not take me seriously. This was just a copy of my first thought stream.

[Cory Trese]

Fuel Curve Fixed:

This fixes several display issues with the Fuel Usage Estimator when in green and calculating for red and visa versa. The Fuel Usage Estimator in "Status > Hold" should now be accurate in all types of Space for both Red and Green Sectors.

[Fenikso]

Should this be already fixed? I am still getting wrong numbers in the Cargo hold display estimator when I upgrade my ship with any upgrade increasing number of Sails .

[Cory Trese]

Fixed several months ago, yes.

I've been over it many times with many people.

Feel free to e-mail me to discuss the fuel metrics and how cargo display estimator works!

[Cory Trese]

*** OLD THREAD ***

Everything posted in this thread has been fixed, it is from August/September time frame, not current info

*** OLD THREAD ***

[Fenikso]

Nov 7, 2011 16:10:36 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Fixed several months ago, yes.

I've been over it many times with many people.

Feel free to e-mail me to discuss the fuel metrics and how cargo display estimator works!

OK, I will e-mail you.