Are 1H Spears Falling Behind?

[En1gma]

Preface: I understand that Spears are geared towards a smaller damage band, while keeping high amounts of Accuracy. 

This being said, I feel like they're seriously falling behind on damage! Riven Field has the Partisan: 5/5 acc/parry, and 25-45 damage. Right next to it on the swords is the Felcha: 3/4 acc/parry, 31-57. Then comes the Cadet's Hammer: 4/2 acc/parry, 36-60. Again, I fully understand that they're meant to have better acc/parry, but at this point in the game you already should have offense/defense worked out, so these points while important only have minor effects on the actual combat. (IMO!) 

This disparity only worsens the further you get into the story- looking at the 1H Spears available in the Ember Lake base camps makes me impossibly glad that I never got that far with a spear based Vraes. Yes they do add important amounts of Accuracy and defense dice, but the damage bands really need some love, especially one you get to the highest levels. 

Thanks again for your time and consideration!

[En1gma]

I just went back to the base camp to make sure I wasn't wasting your time.

The best sword: Keen Cross Blade. 51-96, 6/6 a/p

Best spear: Keen Pit Spear. 53-79 8/7 a/p

Best 2ap hammer: Plainsman Star. 57-87 5/5 a/p

Best 3ap hammer: Morningstar. 61-134 8/6 a/p

Again, yes the a/p is better than the others, (and this selection is slightly better balanced than that of RF) but in terms of damage output, the narrow band severely limits the amount of damage the weapons will put out, and I think renders this weapon class inferior... Out of all these weapons, the one I would choose last is still the spear. I know others may think differently, but for me these spears aren't worth it IM(very)HO.

If I had to make a request about it, I guess raising the base damage while keeping the damage band narrow would be optimal. If the max damage is going to be as capped as it is, I would really like to see a higher starting damage to offset this.

Again, thanks for your time

[Cory Trese]

Well, with Boost in your can give it a shot as well. 5/5 with a 5 Parry Shield is makes for an solid tank Vraes.

edit: I think Spears are one of the best Nightmare weapons in the game.

[Brutus Aurelius]

Mar 25, 2015 23:39:51 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Well, with Boost in your can give it a shot as well. 5/5 with a 5 Parry Shield is makes for an solid tank Vraes.

edit: I think Spears are one of the best Nightmare weapons in the game.

Crushing blow makes them much more effective, since they already have that high acc/parry, so a damage boost is great.

[fallen]

En1gma - thanks for the thoughts. Accuracy and Parry coming from weapons are treated as Strong Dice, and the only other way to gain these for attack is through an empowered attack, so as Brutus Aurelius points out, they are extremely great for builds relying on lower Accuracy empowered attacks (CB). I can understand you dislike the balance of the spear, but it is the unique setup of the weapon, and it works great for some builds, not so great for others.

[En1gma]

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this one... I was just stuck on the fact that Spears will end up doing much less damage over time than any other weapon class. This was my main concern with them, but I understand that there is a trade-off for those extra strong dice. I always want the best of both worlds, I guess

[matrim]

Parry is a strong dice from any source though right? Weapon acc is the only thing that changes vs buffed acc if I read correctly ( weapon are strong vs normal dice on buffed).

[fallen]

matrim - the best advice is to check the combat rules thread - startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/6711/combat-mechanics

But yes, Weapon Parry is strong dice, but so are most buffs. Still, the Accuracy and Parry points on a weapon are very valuable. Especially if combined with a shield.

[En1gma]

Me again. Given that through the entirety of the game, Spears will (almost?) always provide better parry than other weapon types, do you think the descriptions under Vraes's skills should be changed so that swords are the ones considered balanced? As it is, they are described as being tipped towards defense. Since spears are tipped towards defense, perhaps they should be worded as such, instead of for balance?

[fallen]

En1gma - I don't agree. Just checked the weapon charts, and only found 4 spears (all 2H, and 3 of them in the Runkah class) that give better Parry than Accuracy. Accuracy almost always leads Parry, 90%+ of the time. If you check the Swords, you'll find that they are in fact tipped toward defense and that many swords provide better Parry than Accuracy throughout all levels, both in 1H and 2H types, though as mentioned in the leveling text, this is more dominant in 1H swords than 2H.

[En1gma]

Fair enough, I'll just leave it alone I don't have the whole picture, so I'm only going off of what I see here and there. Stoopid speers, lol

[fallen]

En1gma - yeah, I have an unfair advantage with all the tables, spreadsheets, and graphs we've got here.

Spears are especially amazing if you consider that Strong Dice for Accuracy and Parry are not easy to get. +Damage ... that's the same from Gear, Buff or Weapon. And, there is no other way to get Base Damage. Any +Damage is just adding to dice. These factors make Spears some of the best weapons in the game and especially perfect for Talents like Ferocity. If you get +56 Damage to a Hammer, you're just making a super huge Damage dice and hoping it rolls high, but it could still roll really low. And then you have to find other places to get your Accuracy / Parry.

In short, Spears rock

[En1gma]

I get it, I guess... I guess I just wish that the base damage was higher. I could forgive the awful high end damage if there was a marked increase (in base damage) when compared with the swords, who almost always have nearly identical base damage.

When I think spears having narrow damage bands, I'm thinking really narrow, like less than 20 damage between base and high-end. They usually have this, but the base damage is just as low as the swords, leaving the high end severely lacking. Thanks for humoring me, I just hope you can see what I'm trying to say here. I'm not whining that they don't do the job, just that their base damage isn't what I would think it should be, when compared beside the other weapons. I'm done

[Cory Trese]

Spears rock. On NM they are *way* better than blades.

I love Hammers on all difficulty, as PR is easier to Gear than AR.

[John Robinson]

Mar 30, 2015 11:58:04 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Spears rock. On NM they are *way* better than blades.

I love Hammers on all difficulty, as PR is easier to Gear than AR.

I agree 2-H spears are possibly the best weapons in the game.  As a wishlist item, it would be really great if 1-H spears could do a little more damage.