opening doors in NMI

[carthaginians]

I have been thinking about new NMI builds including Tamilin. My worries are how she will ever be able to survive after opening a resesed door and loosing stealth. Im thinking im basically forced to have KJ on my team to open doors for her (then ill probably need kyera for -ap). Has anyone else run into or thought of a way around this problem? I would also love to hear peoples thoughts on opening those tough doors with any NMI team.

[fallen]

carthaginians - invest in a high Parry blade.

[carthaginians]

Somthing tells me thats not gonna be enough.

[fallen]

Invest in constitution and gear?

Ohh - best answer, invest in Stealth!

[contributor]

Yeah, doors are the main reason that I like to roll with Selen as my frontline tank and stealth lead. In most of my groups, she's built for melee and takes Quicksilver Defense up as fast as it can go. I honestly think leading with Tamilin is just asking to get killed at some point, unless you're investing everything (gear, buffs, points) into making sure she can survive that first round the few times she doesn't win Stealth. That makes her less good at what she's really good at though. That's the problem with stealth leading in NMI. It only takes one death and even with really good stealth you will lose a few rolls here and there and if it happens to be agains the wrong enemy all you can do is sit an watch. I find doors and the Underforge to be the biggest threats. There are enemies in the UF that can single-handedly kill every hero except for Vraes in a single turn.

I just made it through the storerooms with a non-tanky Selen opening doors for me. She didn't have totally great stealth either. I totally redid her gear just for that level and prayed to the nine every time she picked a lock. There are actually only 2 doors in there where you have to have her stand in front of them to get them open. Others can be side-picked or the room can be accessed from somewhere else. After the Storerooms you should go a long time before needing her to open things for you again. Fortunately she won stealth both times, but it's no fun rolling those dice.

The door thing is actually one of the few real beefs I have with HoS, as it is now. I feel forced to have either Karjtan, or an amazing Selen dexy-tank for scenarios that only very rarely occur. If you want to have Tamilin and Vincent on team together, you have to really mess with her build to make sure she's capable of surviving these rare encounters. After you've invested the time to get a group through E1, it sucks to just have to roll the dice and hope they survive those doors. If it's impossible to separate unlocking from opening, could there be some rare scrolls that would let Vraes open a door? Or let somebody else open it from a distance?

[fallen]

contributor - I believe it's been mentioned, opening and unlocking doors are inexorably linked, baked into the game well over a year ago now.

[carthaginians]

Thanks for the great post lurker. Could u tell me more about ur tank selen. I was already thinking this would be a good idea. how do u like her as a main tank? Can she really be one shot by the spidermen round 1 with max qsd?

[carthaginians]

This could probably be its own thread but my biggest problem with the game is how bad Tamilin is. I mean she she's not unplayable by any means but from a true powergaming/competitive pov its hard to imagine putting her on ur team. I mean I'm gunna try it but if I were somehow playing for money or something there is just no way. All the other classes are balanced. (I think kyera is better than fyona but thats a small gap and they can do very different things. Selen is miles ahead of tam by comparison.)

[En1gma]

Tank Selen is a boss. QsD, some dodge/parry gear, plus maxed Dex and a few Con, and she is like a Keanu Reeves type character.

[anrdaemon]

[fallen]

Apr 6, 2015 19:30:43 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

Nice screenshot You've got it down - Tamilin is a thief, she is not a tank

[contributor]

Apr 6, 2015 17:02:20 GMT -5 fallen said:

contributor - I believe it's been mentioned, opening and unlocking doors are inexorably linked, baked into the game well over a year ago now.

Yeah, I'm aware of that, which is why I'm thinking of some other ways that might help you avoid the randomness of having to open recessed doors with your sneak or have KJ on your team. I few options would be:
1) Give Vincent a ranged unlock spell.
2) Eliminate such doors altogether.
3) Move the combat triggers to the tile on the other side of the door, so that Tam/Sely could open it and then your tank could actually step through it.
4) Give some scrolls that would allow doors to be unlocked from range.
5) Give Vraes a Door Smash ability so that he can splinter locked doors to pieces with his face. Maybe it would cost him HP as well as SP and take away all his AP for the first turn. Ok, not serious here.

[matrim]

Another option here might be giving a largish boost to sneak if you have used your scout move recently. Say a buff for 3 steps to signify that you know where the enemy is and have the advantage of sneaking up on them. Maybe put it a couple levels into the scout ability.

[contributor]

Apr 6, 2015 17:39:05 GMT -5 carthaginians said:

Thanks for the great post lurker. Could u tell me more about ur tank selen. I was already thinking this would be a good idea. how do u like her as a main tank? Can she really be one shot by the spidermen round 1 with max qsd?

In my last run through the UF with the Withering Strikes team I had two spawns that I lost stealth on that had Spider Hosts in them. The first one was the melee version and he missed all 3 hits. The second one was the ranged version and he landed 2 hits. His third would have killed her. I don't know if he got lucky to land two or I got lucky that he didn't land 3, but either way, yes it's possible for them to kill her on the first turn. By then I also had Warder's Shield 10 on her plus dodge/parry gear. Tamilin never would have made it. I was also maxing the levels in there. My team was level 27, I think, and the mobs were only level 28.

As for the build, I put 3 points into Dance of Shadows and one into Frenzied Blows then I save one point for Quicksilver and pretty much bring that straight up to 10. I might put 1 more point into Frenzied. I will also bring Warder's or Shield of Cortias up along with her. Since QsD doesn't start till later, it means you'll probably want to have another early main tank, like Kincaid or Vraes. By late E1 though Selen will be good to go as your front tank.

[fallen]

If you're playing on Nightmare Ironman, definitely take contributor's advice and focus on survivability -- as mentioned above, high PR weapons, raise your Constitution, get gear that is protective.