Losing reputation for surrendering?

[kaiowhat]

Relatively new player, so if I miss something obvious, dig in and haze away.

Basically, I'm just flying around in my ship, delivering passengers and messages, buying pardons and such, when I noticed I'm getting penalized for surrendering.  As in, I finished all my contracts, bought pardons to get all my negative reps to 0, got rid of all cargo except for water-fuel, and just flying home to try to catch some R&R, let the crew roam the spice halls, etc., and I run into some pirates (let's say Rychart-faction pirates, although this happens with all 6 factions as far as I can tell); I don't even have torps because I expected this to happen.  So I surrender.  They give me a few love-taps, demoralize the crew, look everywhere for SOMETHING of value, but I'm happy because there's nothing on board unless they want to kill us and sell the ship.  I'd even sold the first mate's precious Rouge.  So they leave, I check my faction reputations, and one of them, say De Valtos this time, is down to -1.

Hence, I'm confused.  All I did was surrender to Rychart pirates, so why is De Valtos rep affected, and why am I losing rep for surrendering at all?  Is it because De Valtos now thinks I'm a wimp (which I totally am on this character, I surrender at the drop of a hat, wakka wakka)?  I know shooting back causes lower rep, and I thought escaping would lose rep too, so I'm not sure how to not battle without losing rep if acknowledge isn't an option.  Once, I flew across the quadrant after a contract (chasing first MO rumor in decades), doing nothing but acknowledging and surrendering and ended up with -11 rep with Steel Song.  I became a Wanted Criminal for....not fighting?  SS isn't the brightest, but considering that it's not just them, I figure inbreeding isn't the cause.

I would greatly appreciate some enlightenment on what I'm doing wrong.  For the record, I only noticed this today, and I've only played on Hard today.  But this could have been happening before, I typically go Explorer with 6 positive reps or whack-o-crazy and 5 negative reps (short life span, I know, but still fun), so this is the first time I've really been paying attention to minute rep movements.

[bookworm21]

Jun 6, 2015 12:18:25 GMT -5 kaiowhat said:

Relatively new player, so if I miss something obvious, dig in and haze away.

Basically, I'm just flying around in my ship, delivering passengers and messages, buying pardons and such, when I noticed I'm getting penalized for surrendering.  As in, I finished all my contracts, bought pardons to get all my negative reps to 0, got rid of all cargo except for water-fuel, and just flying home to try to catch some R&R, let the crew roam the spice halls, etc., and I run into some pirates (let's say Rychart-faction pirates, although this happens with all 6 factions as far as I can tell); I don't even have torps because I expected this to happen.  So I surrender.  They give me a few love-taps, demoralize the crew, look everywhere for SOMETHING of value, but I'm happy because there's nothing on board unless they want to kill us and sell the ship.  I'd even sold the first mate's precious Rouge.  So they leave, I check my faction reputations, and one of them, say De Valtos this time, is down to -1.

Hence, I'm confused.  All I did was surrender to Rychart pirates, so why is De Valtos rep affected, and why am I losing rep for surrendering at all?  Is it because De Valtos now thinks I'm a wimp (which I totally am on this character, I surrender at the drop of a hat, wakka wakka)?  I know shooting back causes lower rep, and I thought escaping would lose rep too, so I'm not sure how to not battle without losing rep if acknowledge isn't an option.  Once, I flew across the quadrant after a contract (chasing first MO rumor in decades), doing nothing but acknowledging and surrendering and ended up with -11 rep with Steel Song.  I became a Wanted Criminal for....not fighting?  SS isn't the brightest, but considering that it's not just them, I figure inbreeding isn't the cause.

I would greatly appreciate some enlightenment on what I'm doing wrong.  For the record, I only noticed this today, and I've only played on Hard today.  But this could have been happening before, I typically go Explorer with 6 positive reps or whack-o-crazy and 5 negative reps (short life span, I know, but still fun), so this is the first time I've really been paying attention to minute rep movements.

It might be the way I play, but I don't tend to find it a good idea to stay on the good side of all the factions. 1 or 2 maybe, otherwise I find myself spending so much on pardons that I have no money left for anything else.

Im afraid I cant really answer your questions in great detail, but surrendering shouldnt lose you rep unless:

Artifacts, electronics, weapons (records?) are found on your ship

A contract with DV is 'voided' by the pirates youve surrendered to

Or
You have managed to break a trade embargo or something before leaving, which caused the rep loss.

So maybe this is a bug? Mind you, I can always lose rep so the quadrant is full of those with long memories.


It is absolutely fine to fire at (and loot) pirates. Just dont conscript or destroy them. Unless they are allied with faction B, im which case you lose rep with B but not with A.

Check the help file for more details, under 'Faction conflicts' i think.


I assume that you have considered Trade Permits, Death Warrants and Rank, so you can pass unhindered by that factions pirates, bounty hunters and warships.


Hope that this helps somewhat.

[kaiowhat]

Thanks for the quick response.

I've been checking rep obsessively this run because I've been trying to buy pardons at -1 to -3 rep. Probably not the most efficient in terms of time (OMG Javat gave me a speeding ticket! Ignore the contract! To the Palace! I must sacrifice my first-born to the Prince!) but I'm trying something new. I definitely start with 0 rep in 5 factions and only water fuel. No contracts either. Hadn't considered it being a bug, but every new character I learn several new things, so I assumed I was missing something.

And, this run, I don't have Trade Permits. It's faction pirates that seem to be causing the issue.

Edit: I checked. Independent pirates aren't causing rep loss, even if I shoot, loot, rearm, and salvage.  But ignoring a Thulun pirate made me lose 2 rep with De Valtos (0 change with Thulun). And shooting down and looting a De Valtos pirate made me lose 5 rep with Thulun (0 change with De Valtos). The two have an Alliance in place, so I'm thinking that may be the reason.

Edit 2: Confirmed that it's Alliance. Song had no alliance (because really, who would want it?), Song pirate attacked and no reputation change despite its receiving torp tribute.  Javat had alliance with Thulun; Javat pirate attacked; I surrendered amd lost rep with Thulun.  Basically, if a pirate is in a faction with an ally, there's no way to avoid losing rep with that ally outside of not being attacked in the first place (through avoidance or trade permit).

[bookworm21]

Yep, you are correct on this one

The info IS there in the game manual, but buried deep under reams of text and sub-menus...

For anyone else, it is under 'Faction Conflicts', not 'Reputation'

Maybe Cory Trese could take a look at signposting this?

EDIT: trade permits are defo the way to go to avoid pirates. Faction pirates are more 'privateer' than 'pirate'.

[kaiowhat]

Thanks. I see it now. The only mistake is that ignoring/retreating also makes you lose rp with ally faction; -2 is what I've seen every time so far, not 0. Same with immediately surrendering, which I'm guessing is treated as attacking and losing. I haven't attacked and lost this run so I don't know for sure. Trade Permit is definitely cheaper in the long run. $480 isn't bad but on long runs, I find myself paying $10k often. I've taken to looting and salvaging pirates since I lose rep no matter what and their scrap helps pay for the pardons.

[bookworm21]

Sadly I dont have enough cash for the 50,000,000 credit pardon that I would need to make Javat not hate me. Still, with 36 Hull, 24 armour, 234 crew and 35 guns i dont really care

That captain, my first on 'Hard', was originally a throwaway captain designed to get the 'Blackheart' Award (-11 rep with all factions, unlocks water fuel recycler).

70 years later, he is still going and has racked up over 400 victories, broken the 1000000 barrier twice and also got the independent captain award (-121 with all factions).

As he grows older, he is mellowing in his old age and spent several years ceaselessly blockading Javat Prime (Solar war with De Valtos) until he reached Exalted High Executioner (Rank 18) in the DV military. Flying the behemoth known in hushed whispers as the 'New Design', he has dispatched a class II alien and also captured a space hulk in his endless quest to get all the 'Hard' difficulty unlocks.

Pretty amazing how far he has come from being a simple try-and-get-this-unlock-before-you-die-a-horrible-death to scourge of the factions, mercilessly destroying any who crossed his path to being an up-and-comer in two syndicate militaries (working on Cadar now, rychart soon to follow...)

The thing most likely to kill him will be fuel consumption. 234 crew mutinying is not a pretty sight.

[bookworm21]

Also, smashing pirates will help your morale, another potential cash drain.

Sounds like you're having fun, anyway