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Post by euphorion on Jun 22, 2015 9:08:24 GMT -5
Funny. Then I really got no clue what they have been doing for 10 years. Once I started invading, the AI actually attacked me (horray!). Before I surrounded the planet with 8 transport ships + fighters - AI didn't seem to care about this at all (seee above).
Well, the attacking forces are a joke - they don't even come in numbers, a ship here, 2 others there usually one-shot-killed.
Well, I will quit this game and restart at impossible - with just a single opponent, maybe it helps if it can colonize more planets (and I will test again if it again never passes that virtual frontier...).
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Post by khamya9 on Jun 22, 2015 22:05:24 GMT -5
Funny. Then I really got no clue what they have been doing for 10 years. Once I started invading, the AI actually attacked me (horray!). Before I surrounded the planet with 8 transport ships + fighters - AI didn't seem to care about this at all (seee above). Well, the attacking forces are a joke - they don't even come in numbers, a ship here, 2 others there usually one-shot-killed. Well, I will quit this game and restart at impossible - with just a single opponent, maybe it helps if it can colonize more planets (and I will test again if it again never passes that virtual frontier...). When the ai runs away it means they are in passive mode. You might have noticed some messages "increased/reduced (name of xeno, example bollish) activity". When it is on "increased" the ai is aggressive, on "reduced" they are trying to build up enough forces to attack, thus will avoid conflict by running away. I suspect you put enough troops on their border to make them think they needed more aships, but they never had a strong enough economy to make a bigger fleet than you. |
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Post by euphorion on Jun 23, 2015 6:36:43 GMT -5
Well...at AE4.20 I had a total of 5 ships at the boarder (1st screenshot). At 7.20 (2nd ss) it was ~10 ships it could possibly see (but even for that it would have had to come near me I assume).
Don't tell me the AI gets scared off by a mere 4-10 ships ;-)
Ah well, doing the same game at Impossible now with just 1 opponent (so that one should get at least 20 planets under its control), will see how this goes.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 23, 2015 9:03:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately the screenshots are so small I cannot really see what's going on. Lots of great stuff in the game's manual tho, worth reading.
If you are looking to see the AI in it's best form, try this map:
- The Garden
- Impossible
- 6 Enemy AI
So many of the maps marked as easy were requested specifically by players and alpha testers.
I cannot recall who e-mailed the map plan for that one, but it wasn't someone looking for a fight.
Thanks for playing!!!
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Post by euphorion on Jun 24, 2015 4:25:34 GMT -5
Hah! That was fun - same map against 1 opponent at Impossible I got annihilated early. I relied too much on my observation that the AI(s) wouldn't cross that line too early/at all.
Probably will test the same scenario against 1 AI at Crazy now.
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 24, 2015 8:56:22 GMT -5
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 24, 2015 9:00:34 GMT -5
Darn, I wish I was able to say the same thing. I guess I don't get it  |
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 24, 2015 11:34:43 GMT -5
Cory Trese, throughout this thread, euphorion seemed to be concerned that the AI was not aggressive enough. He changed a couple of parameters on the map he's been playing, and the AI annihilated him early. Confirming that the AI can be aggressive. So that was a nice player test of AI behavior. Now euphorion's replaying the same map at crazy instead of impossible difficulty, showing the great replay value of the game. As Cory mentioned earlier in this thread, not all maps are designed for "someone looking for a fight." Not every map is going to please every player out of the box. (though maybe if you change enough parameters every map can be fun for almost every player.)
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 24, 2015 12:54:48 GMT -5
That's a very clear explanation tenbsmith. Very similar to how I test the AI -- although I run with without a player, so they get to do their turns as fast as they are able. Each level of difficulty should make them slightly more aggressive -- but each Xeno species has a different base aggression, as well as a type of expansion preference (Closest World, Prefer X, Prefer Y or Prefer XY expansion.) Higher difficulties will cause them to be more aggressive which will exaggerate their expansion preference routine. |
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Post by euphorion on Jun 25, 2015 3:10:57 GMT -5
Darn, I wish I was able to say the same thing. I guess I don't get it ยด Now and I guess I'm not sure if my english is THAT bad or I express myself so badly. I played at a map against 2 AIs at difficulty "Crazy" (which is supposed to be rather tought already, right?). Non of those 2 AIs ever made any attempt to go against me or even look for planets to colonize once it ran out of planets in its area. Once I started invading after over 10 game years it showed up with a handful of ships only. I find that still quite strange.
What the game at "Impossible" (and the hyper agressive AI) showed to me was: - it has nothing to do with the Map itself
What only more tests could show is: - was it a one-time "hickup" of the AI? (would have to play with the exact same settings again) - had it to do with 2 AIs at Crazy (would have to play at Crazy against 1 AI and against 2 AIs at Impossible)
Well I might get back to this map and do some more tests at a later time, but for now I admit I grew a bit tired of it and started a game of the often adviced "Garden" map.
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Post by anrdaemon on Jun 25, 2015 6:27:14 GMT -5
Probably it was as someone suspected, and they tried to balance their fleet against yours? Were your game on Impossible was low on the fleet support from your side, comparing to your Crazy game?
Is that even a thing, though? Cory?
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Post by euphorion on Jun 25, 2015 8:13:31 GMT -5
If only I did have any meaningful fleet in that Crazy game. I was having a total of 5 ships from Mid Year 4 on for another 2 years.
I tried to follow exactly the same path at Impossible, probably a few turns slower due to economic constraints in the first few turns.
Economic buildup, bee-lining with Thulun towards that yellow planet in the middle, parking my 2 Defenders there.
Only that at mid of year 3 the AI showed up with 10 ships, destroyed the planet in 2 turns and moved towards the next colony.
As my main goal was to test if a single AI would be just as passive on that map - I had seen enough at that point ;-)
If I ever try that again I will have to stick much closer to my homeplanets and prioritize some military research much higher.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 25, 2015 11:30:29 GMT -5
It isn't that you're bad at expressing yourself -- I'm just really dense sometimes. anrdaemon -- the Xeno does try to react to your Ships, but it does not inspect your fleet aside from the ships that you attack it with. The AI really collects what it knows about the player from the ships that it fights. You could have a large defensive fleet that the Xeno never fights and the AI wouldn't react to the designs in it at all. euphorion -- It is very possible you just had a Xeno that failed a lot of dice rolls when making decisions. Ultimately there are random elements inside the AI that will cause even the same AI species, same map, same difficulty to act differently. |
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Post by tenbsmith on Jun 25, 2015 12:10:26 GMT -5
I love all this talk about the AI. Fun topic. This forum is where I learned about 'intelligent agents' and 'emergent behavior'. I'm wondering if the 4X AI is top down or a group of Intelligent Agents.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jun 25, 2015 12:46:08 GMT -5
I love all this talk about the AI. Fun topic. This forum is where I learned about 'intelligent agents' and 'emergent behavior'. I'm wondering if the 4X AI is top down or a group of Intelligent Agents. I'll break our simple strategy down for anyone who cares =) Each enemy AI (EAI) consists of multiple zone (room) AI (RAI.) Based on how much territory an EAI may be composed of between 1 and 10 RAI. Each RAI is assigned ownership of several worlds and directs the ships that are produced by the worlds. The RAI give a EAI something like the player's Faction. The RAI go through cycles where they are independent from the EAI's direction and passively build defenses / avoid the player. The other part of the cycle, the RAI become subordinate to the EAI. The EAI's primary and overriding goal is to destroy the player as quickly as possible. In all scenarios, the RAI is responsible for assigning each enemy unit (EUT) tasks. Tasks might be like "attack this player ship" or "guard this world killer's location." The types of tasks assigned to the EUT depend on what the RAI is doing, and if it is working for the EAI or on passive building duty. It is organized this way to make the processing simple. * For each team, process the EAI and assign orders to any subordinate RAI. * For all RAI, process incoming commands and assign orders to any subordinate EUT. * For all EUT, process incoming commands and request attacks / invasions against player. |
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