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Post by contributor on Jul 25, 2015 13:29:23 GMT -5
I've had the chance to play P3 a bit now. I did the tutorial, the Ferarai and now I'm going to track down a spore. I got the boost in from the redirect from the Ferarai. Overall I'm enjoying it. I like the mix of some story in with levels, without the story being the main feature. I also find climbing the tech tree to be more fun than getting a huge gob of xp and rp (which is also fun in it's own way). There are a few things that would make some suggestions on though.
1. It seems like there are some places where the story isn't so seamless. The first mission when you go to Tundeer is very weird. It doesn't help that I went to the Ferarai first so I couldn't even remember very well what the set-up was, but I remember something about spores falling and so we're just going to go and make sure everything is alright. As the mission opens however I'm standing outside of the city marching north with next to no explanation of what's happening or why we're going somewhere. It just felt very disjointed from a plot perspective. The beginning of the Power Grid Relay (Ferarai) was the same. The dialogue seemed all out of sync with the captain saying charge to the TP and then stopping for a moment of reflection and the Kathos coming in and telling us that there's a TP ahead.
2a. Mission briefings (possibly with maps when available) would really be great. As it is now every time I hit the deploy button it's like "Well let's see what's going to happen next." Some sort of briefing would really help bridge between the levels and give a better sense of what you're about to experience and would also let you prepare your squad a bit.
2b. It would be really great if the briefing would be an opportunity for us to choose what templars we're going to deploy for the upcoming mission. This game is all about tactics and the more control your players have over their tactics the more happy they're going to be. The briefing should give a picture of what the mission is going to be like (assault, scout, take and hold, hold out etc.) and then the player should get to decide who they will bring. This is really important for people really want to develop really specialized teams (all Scouts anyone?). Getting a random bag of your knights at the beginning takes some fun out of making those decisions about who your going to deploy. Obviously there will be limits on it (number of knights, required knights like an engineer etc.).
3 (but sorta 2c). If we're going to get random knights added to our team (like the Hydra in Tundeer) it would be nice if they were added before we deployed so that we could allocate their points and talents ourselves. My team is around level 7-8 and I don't know what level he came in at, but when we got back to the HQ he was only level 4. I had just recruited a Paladin before the level and she started at level 5, so he was below whatever average is. So, it would be good if he was at least at the new recruit level and we could allocate his points ourselves.
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Post by fallen on Jul 25, 2015 14:29:50 GMT -5
contributor - great feedback all around,t hanks for sharing. #1. There are definitely some story disjoints that we're editing through. You've hit on a couple of the points of which I am aware. The one about getting all the details on Galantia Cross and then going to the Ferarai is something I hadn't seen before and will work on fixing. #2a. Hopefully this is something we'll be able to keep improving. We're going to move more of the data out of the graphic and into text registers. The main missing link between every level right now is the cinematic sequences that are under development. None will be as complicated as the intro, but text, graphics, faces and words playing out between each level is in the workds. #2b. Currently not doable, but a possible future. #3. A Templar is always recruited / deployed at your level average minus any difficulty penalties. Templars are also auto-leveled with any techs that you have available. If you can provide a saved game or something, we can try to reproduce. I tried it here and found the Hydra recruited at the right spot. What difficulty are you on?
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Post by contributor on Jul 26, 2015 6:41:05 GMT -5
Ok, thanks, I figured you were probably already working on some of the story stuff. With the level of the Hydra, I think I figure it out (I'm playing on Brutal btw). The Paladin would have dropped the average level of the squad so the next recruit would have been below her.
On the next level of Tundeer (Pipline) I was reminded again of how helpful it would be to know, who is going to be deployed before the mission, because it will likely effect how we spend our RP. If I would have known that the Hydra was going to become a permanent part of this campaign I would have been plowing more RP into his development instead of tying to work on my Paladin.
As for letting us pick which templars to deploy, one sort-of-solution is to just give us a TP, only what knights are absolutely necessary for the mission and lots of SP to spend. That way, on the first turn, we can call in exactly the squad we want for that mission.
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Post by fallen on Jul 26, 2015 9:15:01 GMT -5
contributor - glad that we worked out the averages issue. Those can be a little confusing, but I think when it's tracked down, you'll find that the math is holding. As we work on pulling some of the mission deployment parameters out of the artwork and into more expressive text elements, perhaps we will be able to also display who is going to be deployed. We'll keep working on this part.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 14:15:32 GMT -5
Just wanted to weigh in with my few thoughts on P3 I know you guys are working as hard as you can to iron out these story bugs, thanks for all your hard work on that. The story is so critical to the success of this game. One story/gameplay aspect that's been bothering me is the xeno AI and why sometimes the xeno don't move. The level where it bothered me the most was on the Great Pipeline. I've played both iterations of the level and I've had issues with large amounts of spawned xeno not moving from their spawn location. It doesn't add to the sense of urgency to get through the level if there's a horde of xeno behind you and only three are actually chasing you. I'm not sure if it's a pathing issue and there are too many or the back and forth bridges give them trouble, etc. I also like the tech tree and the balance that it currently has. I feel like there are real and meaningful decisions to be made in the different directions. That being said, I feel like my tech trees always look basically identical through the current deployments.. I know this is going to be a long game and I have some patience in waiting for TB quality. I just think that not every new player is going to get a good feel for flexibility out of the tech tree if the game launches with three or four deployments. It feels a little superfluous in the early game. The biggest benefit it has is teasing future upgrades. Sorry that this isn't super practical. One suggestion is to lower the amount of RP through the Boost-in. My tutorial squads are scraping for RP, but my Boost in guys have a reserve stash of several hundred to develop new specialists. I think the solution that is currently deployed of applying available upgrade points for newly recruited templars at the beginning of a level is great. I know contributor would like to apply points, but I think it gives players an opportunity to use specialists in a way that they might not think. One of the things I'm afraid will happen is that new players on Steam will be unsatisfied with the length of the game at release and that new deployments will turn into a bit of a bottleneck. I'm hopeful that this won't cause them to leave negative reviews on the front end. I love that it seems like respec is going to stick around, that is a crucial part of enjoyment of this game for me and I think it will be for a lot of new players. As a final note, I think it would be worth exploring creating a P2-like loop of combat levels. I'm not sure how you could tie in story squads, but getting to fight and grow the abilities of your templar before the story is complete could keep a lot of players around. On the other hand they might just get bored and then not end up sticking around for the end of the story. Who know. I'll stop rambling now. I'll post this other places, but any forum members who love TB games and weren't a part of this alpha need to get this game. It's definitely the next step for TB games and the rounding out of the ST universe alone is worth the price to see where the story goes IMHO. |
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Post by fallen on Jul 26, 2015 14:32:04 GMT -5
@rearick - thanks for the feedback. To answer a few points.
1. We're continuing to work on improving the AI. I don't think that is a story issue tho. We've got our eye on specific places like the bridge level for AI improvements.
2. Thanks for the reminder on Boost In, this has been on the list for a long time to fix. Now 500 RP (roughly equivalent to a well-played tutorial).
3. The launched game will have 30+ levels over major 6 deploys. It's ~60 hours of content, by my play through count, and I think I play pretty fast. We are not releasing the game without a complete story -- sorry that you go that impression. We will add the ability to loop your squad through the entire campaign at a later date.
4. It is critical to deploy new Templars already having spent their upgrade points. Otherwise, by the time you reach level 3 or 4, you're basically setting up a suicide mission for any new recruits - it's impossible to get Veterans if they come in with all Talents at 1 and points unspent. If you don't like the point allocation, Respec (yes, it is a permanent feature).
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Post by anvil on Jul 26, 2015 15:07:48 GMT -5
I like P3. The story is coming along and very few bugs. It's too bad we can't start our own teams, but hey, that's how it is.
I haven't used boost in or respec as I've always started with the tutorial to make sure the bugs were gone. I will have to try them and respec may be the answer to my question/suggestion.
when we abort, it's usually because of a wrong tactical run, or just learning the map. There are two choices. Replay and return to HQ. The only difference I see is you can add another troop to your squa and modify equipment. I don't see much reason to do either. I have seen where changing talents, attributes or skills would have been nice. Are you planning on making a difference here?
My suggestion is to go to HQ and be able to realocate everything/anything from the previous level. I have found that upon finishing a first run that I would like to make some changes based on the new level.
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Post by fallen on Jul 26, 2015 15:40:41 GMT -5
when we abort, it's usually because of a wrong tactical run, or just learning the map. There are two choices. Replay and return to HQ. The only difference I see is you can add another troop to your squa and modify equipment. I don't see much reason to do either. I have seen where changing talents, attributes or skills would have been nice. Are you planning on making a difference here? My suggestion is to go to HQ and be able to realocate everything/anything from the previous level. I have found that upon finishing a first run that I would like to make some changes based on the new level. The Retry / Go to HQ options aren't going to change. They give you the two options you need, as far as I can see -- you messed up tactically and just need to try again, or you made a setup mistake and need to respec / re-equip your Templars. It sounds like you need to try Respec. Then you can change anything for any Templar. All new Talents every level if you want. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 20:03:05 GMT -5
3. The launched game will have 30+ levels over major 6 deploys. It's ~60 hours of content, by my play through count, and I think I play pretty fast. We are not releasing the game without a complete story -- sorry that you go that impression. We will add the ability to loop your squad through the entire campaign at a later date. So glad the story will be complete at launch! That can only help new players and I think this game will be the perfect entry point for many into TB games! I (and I'm sure many others) will be curious to see if and how you guys plan to add content to the game. |
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Post by fallen on Jul 26, 2015 20:23:19 GMT -5
@rearick - eventual content adds will include both new optional deployments and a full campaign. We will provide a full campaign (30+ levels) so that we are not in a position do need to add content any time soon, and can turn our attention to the next project  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 21:00:47 GMT -5
turn our attention to the next project I think we're all excited about that one!  |
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Post by anvil on Jul 27, 2015 11:00:40 GMT -5
fallen, I haven't used respec yet. I figured that was the answer. It's sort of a digital makeover. Poof! Now I'm something else!
I'm not sure that I like the concept. It seems to me it eliminates completely long term game strategy meaning long term character development. With this, hard line game play means play a level, figure out the best team, respec accordingly until you win. There is no need to really be concerned with your choices after each level. It's sort of the ultimate cheat. I will try it and see how it plays.
I only have one scenario to date where it looks like I must respec. That's tutorial 3.
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Post by fallen on Jul 27, 2015 11:17:38 GMT -5
Nope, Respec is a permanent feature. It will be Elite-only, but is intended for use within the game at all times.
A Templar can rely on his or her thousands of hours of Lineage memories to bring forward different skills, abilities, and even physical qualities.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 28, 2015 12:39:56 GMT -5
As always, thanks for the push everyone (esp. fallen and @rearick) AI is sometimes really hard to get right, and the behaviors it will express can be baffling at times. Because of an awesome alpha team and this post I'm happy to say that I have made huge progress on the AI's planning module and the "sense of urgency" has never been more real =) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 12:44:29 GMT -5
As always, thanks for the push everyone (esp. fallen and @rearick) AI is sometimes really hard to get right, and the behaviors it will express can be baffling at times. Because of an awesome alpha team and this post I'm happy to say that I have made huge progress on the AI's planning module and the "sense of urgency" has never been more real =) I know I'll come to regret posting about the AI!  |
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