Xeno won't create Dead System

[hlo]

If I go bombard or invade a xeno system to zero (0) quality, I will get a dead system that no one can ever go back.

However if xeno world killer pound my system to zero quality, the system is reset and be available for colonization again!! Why??

In my current game I have a system that got pounded by a world killer for many turns waiting for my fleet to get there. First the system went Independent when quality dropped to 4. The turn before quality was sitting at 1. On the turn report immediately after I see the quality reduced message. I was expecting a dead system but I found a complete reset system instead.

[Cory Trese]

Special Xeno terror tactics. This is intentional, there is a special case in the rules code to handle it and re-roll the system.

Xeno have no desire to create dead planets. In fact, in ST RPG they live mostly on dead planets.

We could debate a rules change if anyone's interested.

[hlo]

I think if a system reaches Quality of ZERO (0), it should stay dead for the remainder of the game.

[Cory Trese]

Ok, that's one vote. We're all tied up at 50-50

[tenbsmith]

The current approach does seems unfair and illogical. Why would system quality suddenly bounce back only after the Xeno had reduced it to 0?

Below are two scenarios based on the fact that Xeno often live on dead planets and thinking about it from from a lore perspective .

1) Xeno might have very different requirements than humans. In this case, a system that has 0 quality for humans might be highly suitable for Xeno. This could translate into game mechanics that calculate two quality scores, one for humans quality and another for xeno. Under these circumstance, even an utterly obliterated system might be suitable or even preferable for Xeno infestation.

2) The Xeno may be more primitive than humans--less on the ball intellectually, but more physically resilient. Thus they have similar living requirements but are more capable of living on lower quality planets. This might translate into game mechanics where a modifier is applied to Human Quality to come up with Xeno Quality. For example:
If [Human Quality] = N
Then [Xeno Quality] = (N+2)
So even when the Xeno take Human Quality to 0, Xeno can still colonize. On the other hand, humans would have to take quality to -2 in order to keep Xeno from re-infesting. 

[En1gma]

I didn't think the WK did anything but drop spores from orbit. I could see this being the major cause of Quality loss: infestations of Xeno would make an area unfit for human conditions, thus dropping the HUMAN quality score.

I don't see the Xeno wrecking the system itself, I see them contaminating entire swaths of the planet, making it unlivable. I see human bombardment obliterating the planet itself, which would make it unfit for the construction of their cities, thus losing quality as they would need it.

Xeno would not care if the surface is in poor shape, thus their ability to thrive where humans cannot.

[hlo]

Let say the xeno colonize this cleansed system. I then send in my transports and wipe out the xenos population, what makes you think now the system is again fit for human occupation? The xeno probably never clean up that toxic mess and my invasion probably never make it better either.

[Cory Trese]

Darn ... unfair and illogical ... that's too bad.

I am really sad to hear that.

[tenbsmith]

Cory Trese, I wrote the "unfair" post in a hurry and the phrasing was unfortunate. Sorry to bring you down.

From my perspective this a minor issue and, given other demands on your time, I'm not sure it is worth addressing. That being said, I think the perfect implementation of allowing Xeno to settle on zero quality planet would look different than it does now. As you said, Xeno like 'dead' worlds, this implies they can infest 0 quality worlds without having to increase the quality. One way to achieve xeno infestation of 0 quality systems would be separate stats for Human Quality and Xeno Quality.

[Cory Trese]

Well, Xeno cannot colonize a dead system -- but if they defeat the player and take a Colony by reducing Population OR Quality to zero, they have a chance to immediately reset or Colonize it.

This is a hedge against the player strategy of just letting worlds go to 0 Quality in an effort to trick the AI into not continuing a campaign. By letting the Xeno AI take the World, it provides a limit to the "scorched earth" tactics that are so dear to hlo and a few other players.

This was included in the very first release of the game, and has stood the test of time. This is the first negative interaction I've had about it, in spite of processing a seemingly endless stream of e-mail =)

[elwoodps]

The way I rationalize it, is that the Xeno's must be Crazy Master's of Terraforming, who terraform any system that they conquer which has at least one quality left in an effort to get rid of the human stink.

Unfortunately their method is as dangerous as it is powerful: Sometimes they get huge increases, and other times it backfires and reduces quality.......  But it always gets rid of the stink.

[richard]

Can I let a low quality world be reduce to zero by xeno
and get a better world in return?

[elwoodps]

Oct 9, 2015 14:15:08 GMT -5 richard said:

Can I let a low quality world be reduce to zero by xeno
and get a better world in return?

You have to let the Xeno kick you off the world, and then let them colonize it.  At that point there's a new roll for Quality, which may improve the system. 

Then you have to Invade, to take it back, if you want it.

[richard]

Then it may be worth it to let them take a world so it can be reset to some thing better

[elwoodps]

Oct 9, 2015 20:40:34 GMT -5 richard said:

Then it may be worth it to let them take a world so it can be reset to some thing better

Players do that on occasion.  See odomi's post in this thread: Faction Configurations

I tried to do that a couple times, but always lost patience waiting for the Xeno to send a WK, and just got on with the business of making those low Q worlds profitable.

Would probably work better against the Jyeeta, who like to spam World Killers.