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Post by alexey on Nov 4, 2015 19:15:11 GMT -5
Hi, thank you for such a great game!
Here is my small wishlist:
1) I beat Ironman the first time with only 3 templars dead and didn't find it challenging at all. It would be great to have a new difficulty level with 2-3 times more xeno, permanent defeat on captain's death and maybe even lower level on recruits. It should be something like XCOM impossible+ironman.
2) "Spawn and attack at the same turn" mechanic makes OW soldiers mandatory and leaves no room for other classes and tactics.
3) OW in itself is overpowered. Maybe limiting it to 2-3 shots per enemy turn would fix it.
4) Berserks are useless. Being melee they do barely more damage than soldiers. Axes definitely need a boost in damage.
5) Some maps like "Siege at Tundeer" and "Great Pipeline" start with non-storyline templars that cannot be swapped, which is very annoying.
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 4, 2015 22:10:32 GMT -5
1) Can you send me your saved game? It sounds like you may have the global high score, maybe the best BF player in the world. Our metrics show that most people don't last very long on Ironman. I'd love to do some analysis of the save.
2) I think you're missing the Neptune (Overwatch) and Hydra (AoE denial) as well as Berserker (Auto-Counter) in this calculation. However, everyone is going to play differently and if you think that OW is critical to victory, you'll build squads around it. Nothing wrong with that.
3) Thanks for the feedback! We'll keep collecting metrics on players and how well they're doing!
4) Sorry you think so! Not using Berserks seems like a missed opportunity for a fun unit, however ... not everyone is going to play the same way and if you don't see a place for Berserkers in your squad, you can build squads without them. Nothing wrong with that. From what we are seeing, lots of players are using them in place of OW and Soldiers.
5) Those are storyline Templars. Sorry you found it annoying. We will work to make the game less annoying.
Thanks for posting!!!
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Post by alexey on Nov 4, 2015 23:44:51 GMT -5
1) There are only 12 people playing on ironman according to steam which seems odd. Here is my profileI backed it up and restored a few times in early game just to test non-soldier classes. Also I played the game earlier till Moklumnue and memorized most of the maps, which resulted in quite high time scores. 2) The thing is, you just have to cover those holes with OW or you will die. At least on ironman. Maybe i'm missing something. How do you block them with a berserk? 4) Axes do ~30% more damage than rifles now, which is not very impressive. 5) I meant hydras, soldiers, scouts etc. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 4, 2015 23:57:55 GMT -5
1) There was a bug with leaderboard scores for Ironman for a while. There are more people playing it than 12.  2) Saved games I am reviewing seem to disagree, however, it is a good strategy for some players -- but not required. I'm not saying you should try something different if it is working for you. 4) Damage is part of the equation, certainly. I'm not sure what would qualify as impressive, but they are balanced as far as the math I understand for the game. 5) Yep! Thanks for the feedback. I'll go over it with Andrew and Martin as well as feed your saved game into the hidden score table analyzer! |
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Post by alexey on Nov 5, 2015 10:43:19 GMT -5
2) Saved games I am reviewing seem to disagree Maybe this is the reason that "most people don't last very long on Ironman"? 4) Damage is part of the equation, certainly. I'm not sure what would qualify as impressive, but they are balanced as far as the math I understand for the game. I dont think they are. Being melee they need a lot of help from their team just to reach an enemy and stay alive. And all they do is 30% more damage than a regular soldier. Their crit chance is not very high too. It can reach ~55% while soldiers can have ~40%. Thanks for the feedback. I'll go over it with Andrew and Martin as well as feed your saved game into the hidden score table analyzer! Thank you! I'm glad if it was helpful. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 5, 2015 10:46:35 GMT -5
I don't follow the question about Ironman? We'll add achievements in an upcoming release that will track how many people have beaten the game on each difficulty which may give us some more information.
Thanks for the information!
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 5, 2015 13:06:53 GMT -5
I don't follow the question about Ironman? We'll add achievements in an upcoming release that will track how many people have beaten the game on each difficulty which may give us some more information. Thanks for the information! I understood him to mean that other people not relying on overwatch for ironman may have been why they do not do better on the whole. This discussion makes me want to have melee focused teams... :-p |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 5, 2015 13:25:42 GMT -5
Hehehe ... try a Berserker build with the goal of 75% Counter-Attack and 75% Auto-Block.
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Post by baxterr on Nov 5, 2015 13:33:13 GMT -5
Hehehe ... try a Berserker build with the goal of 75% Counter-Attack and 75% Auto-Block. Except for the ranged Xeno, every Xeno attack is essential suicide when you've got Berserkers like that. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 5, 2015 13:55:08 GMT -5
Hehehe ... try a Berserker build with the goal of 75% Counter-Attack and 75% Auto-Block. Except for the ranged Xeno, every Xeno attack is essential suicide when you've got Berserkers like that. MP+ |
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Post by alexey on Nov 5, 2015 13:57:13 GMT -5
Wascalwywabbit, thank you, that's what I meant. My English is just terrible.
Cory Trese, exposing your templar to damage is a suicide on Ironman, no matter how much block or armor he has.
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 5, 2015 14:22:14 GMT -5
Wascalwywabbit, thank you, that's what I meant. My English is just terrible. Cory Trese, exposing your templar to damage is a suicide on Ironman, no matter how much block or armor he has. Maybe... Incomparables in games are not always meant to have exactally equal effect in aggregate thru the levels. Even if melee is less useful to you for beating ironman, perhaps you could try a melee emphasized ironman group as your own ironman "extreme challenge edition". The boards here have a couple of players that like to challenge themselves and others that way, refining each others understanding along the way. Think of it as the same as a peer reviewed scientific journal to test each hypothesis more rigorously thru many minds, then any things which still stand out as more than lightly imbalanced may indeed get further tweaking. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Nov 5, 2015 15:10:49 GMT -5
Wascalwywabbit, thank you, that's what I meant. My English is just terrible. Cory Trese, exposing your templar to damage is a suicide on Ironman, no matter how much block or armor he has. Everyone has their own strategy. I'm not sure I could get through Ironman without Berserkers. Exposing them to damage and exposing them to attacks are different things. |
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Post by alexey on Nov 7, 2015 23:46:09 GMT -5
Wascalwywabbit, thank you, that's what I meant. My English is just terrible. Cory Trese, exposing your templar to damage is a suicide on Ironman, no matter how much block or armor he has. Everyone has their own strategy. I'm not sure I could get through Ironman without Berserkers. Exposing them to damage and exposing them to attacks are different things. Having 75% block chance means having 19% chance of losing half HP and 6% chance of being killed outright by an average alien with 2 attacks. By the way it doesn't mean that block or armor is useless. Having a good armor rules out low damaging skitters and riflemen. Especially on the captain with his cheap weapons. Wascalwywabbit, thank you, that's what I meant. My English is just terrible. Cory Trese, exposing your templar to damage is a suicide on Ironman, no matter how much block or armor he has. Maybe... Incomparables in games are not always meant to have exactally equal effect in aggregate thru the levels. Even if melee is less useful to you for beating ironman, perhaps you could try a melee emphasized ironman group as your own ironman "extreme challenge edition". The boards here have a couple of players that like to challenge themselves and others that way, refining each others understanding along the way. Think of it as the same as a peer reviewed scientific journal to test each hypothesis more rigorously thru many minds, then any things which still stand out as more than lightly imbalanced may indeed get further tweaking. Don't you consider it a waste to have a unit that is useful just for rising game difficulty? And why can't it be risen with the difficulty setting? Try XCOM-2012 for example. There are no useless classes or items in XCOM and there is an Ironman mode that is really challenging. And I believe BF could be as great and popular with just a few balance tweaks and a decent Ironman mode. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Nov 8, 2015 1:48:38 GMT -5
Could you better define average alien alexey? Sufficiently high armor/deflection and fortitude/will combined with auto block and counter attack is an effective case for melee, range being its weak point. Your example of 2 attacks causing death 6% and halved hp 19% is mitigated by those defensive combos, you need all 6 in combination. ntsheep also strongly suggests a paladin with max heal and enhancers, so in total 8 things necessary to maintain an effective melee team just for survivability and defense. Yes that makes it harder in the management sense, but not completely out done by the overwatch ability. X-com has much larger teams and budgets, as well as somewhat different stratigic goals. I like them back in the day, but now find them somewhat tedious. Have you tried a combo team focus on two groups of 3 (typical, but not always possible) captain/paladin/soldier and beserker/pal/sol..? Have you always found overwatch catches everything before it makes it thru your defensive areas? Personally I've found couter attacking melee to be the best secndary defense if the enemy makes it past overwatch on my first builds. Engineers, scouts and the group damage pair of hydras and neptunes are more of a per level choice imo, sometimes they are great, sometimes a liability. |
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