Reputation Bug

[user9]

Why am I getting penalized reputation from factions not involved whatsoever in the contracts I take?

When I take a message quest from a faction against independents in independant space, I get a bonus rep for the quest faction, and a detriment to rep of another faction that is not in conflict in any way at all with the quest faction. Not even allied. The two are not associated in any way whatsoever! How is that fair? How is that even logical?

[bookworm21]

If you had any interactions with that factions spa that may have been a reason? That's at least the most likely cause for rep loss - for example 'ignoring' a military ship will lose you rep with that faction


It could also be a bug, what device, OS version and game version are you playing on?

[Cory Trese]

Jan 29, 2016 5:24:45 GMT -5 user9 said:

Why am I getting penalized reputation from factions not involved whatsoever in the contracts I take?

When I take a message quest from a faction against independents in independant space, I get a bonus rep for the quest faction, and a detriment to rep of another faction that is not in conflict in any way at all with the quest faction. Not even allied. The two are not associated in any way whatsoever! How is that fair? How is that even logical?

A Spy or Political Officer can help you determine what Faction is disguising their ships as Independents.

I'm not sure any of Star Traders RPG is fair -- the setting involves a lot of petty infighting and your character is a mercenary who's not particularly loved by any of the Factions.

The rule is logical in that it protects the game balance and keeps the game fun -- or at least that is what we've been hearing over the past five years.

The chance that an Independent ship is actually carrying a Faction passenger or is a disguise for another Faction mercenary is a mathematical hedge against imbalance within the risk reward of Contracts.

[Officer Genious]

Jan 29, 2016 9:44:30 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Jan 29, 2016 5:24:45 GMT -5 user9 said:

Why am I getting penalized reputation from factions not involved whatsoever in the contracts I take?

When I take a message quest from a faction against independents in independant space, I get a bonus rep for the quest faction, and a detriment to rep of another faction that is not in conflict in any way at all with the quest faction. Not even allied. The two are not associated in any way whatsoever! How is that fair? How is that even logical?

A Spy or Political Officer can help you determine what Faction is disguising their ships as Independents.

I'm not sure any of Star Traders RPG is fair -- the setting involves a lot of petty infighting and your character is a mercenary who's not particularly loved by any of the Factions.

The rule is logical in that it protects the game balance and keeps the game fun -- or at least that is what we've been hearing over the past five years.

The chance that an Independent ship is actually carrying a Faction passenger or is a disguise for another Faction mercenary is a mathematical hedge against imbalance within the risk reward of Contracts.

I want to add that surveillance can track the contract even if you let them escape battle, so if the ship happens to be a friendly ship, you can let them run and track them later to find them in a different ship. You can do this as much as you want. I always use surveillance first precisely for this reason.

[Cory Trese]

Absolutely. Big advantage of Bounty Hunter!

[user9]

I'm on android 4.1.1 (custom build - whatever that means) alcatel one touch m'pop.

So, in other words, getting Big Tent is up to pure random dumb chance? Or is there some mythical magical secret formula? Because it is apparently impossible to do ANYTHING that gains rep, other than buy and sell, without upsetting someone.

Also trade alliance reputation boosts seem to be really badly broken. When I attempt to trade restricted goods at the beginning of the game, I got 4 rep for selling $20,000 in electronics, and a grand total of 1 REP for the faction in a trade alliance with whom I sold goods to, and ZERO REP with 3 other factions that were in a trade alliance with the same faction (yes there were 5 factions in a trade alliance).

BUT when I bought $1000 in water-fuel from someone in a trade embargo minutes later it resulted in something like -16 rep.

$20,000 = +5
$1000 = -16
??!!

[Cory Trese]

Thanks for posting the device details -- that will help us track down any bugs you happen to find -- and get them fixed quickly!

For every action, there is a reaction. The key strategy to adopt for Big Tent, is to turn a "Reputation Profit" on your actions. Don't pay 100 Reputation to gain 20 or you're going backwards.

I am sad to hear you don't like the Trade Alliance Reputation system -- I spent years getting it right and working with players on the balance.

Regarding your specific example, how many UNITS of Electronics did you sell? Probably a lot less units than you did for $1K of W-F.

Do you happen to have a screenshot of what you're referring to as a "five way trade alliance" because that might be a point of confusion or a bug caused by the custom build. I'd like to investigate.

Thanks for playing! If the game is making you miserable and you'd like a refund, just drop me a line and I'll take care of it.

Best wishes,

Cory

[user9]

The five way trade alliance did seem very, very strange, unfortunately I don't have the save anymore. It was essentially 4 different factions with a trade alliance to House Thulun.
I'll try a trade build again and screenshot everything that happens.

[user9]

Here's the results of the fiasco that is the new game as a merchant:

Player type: Merchant

Starting Alliance: Steel Song Clan

Starting Ship: Fidei Defensor



Phone Model: Alcatel One Touch M'Pop 5020T

Android: 4.1.1

Custom Build Version: 2l5-UY2







First I sell 2 units of electronics under a trade alliance:

postimg.org/image/s3grz7wcb/

postimg.org/image/55u09q263/

postimg.org/image/mgkf1qttn/



In effect:

$4,068 = +1REP



Then I sell 10 units of artifacts:

postimg.org/image/mgkf1qttn/

postimg.org/image/yz10ibqt7/

postimg.org/image/3loobbtrv/



Again, the math:

$16,807 = +3REP




Then I sell 5 artifacts and 7 weapons:

postimg.org/image/m52yozddn/

postimg.org/image/hn0nwvxbv/

postimg.org/image/q6k1un5ob/

postimg.org/image/gnad16i63/



The math:

$13,160 = +15REP & -2REP

Well that's not at all consistent. Unless artifacts are supposed to be massively less than weapons in their rep bonus?

Oh yeah and a -2 from someone not involved in any way with the faction I'm trading with. Just because.



And just about now, I LOSE ALL OF MY RECORDS for prices at exchanges, over 15 planets. I find out about 2 planets later. Of course I don't have a before screen because I didn't exactly expect that.

postimg.org/image/j60nflta3/

postimg.org/image/wbg5lpn5n/

Is that intentional?



Next I intentionally violate a trade embargo

First I buy $3,600 in water-fuel:

postimg.org/image/5sxiczofv/

postimg.org/image/ywlq98cjf/



Math:

$3,600 = -6REP & lost trade permit (water-fuel)

So it's over 6X more potent than trading RESTRICTED goods.



Next, I sell 7 units of records:

postimg.org/image/ywlq98cjf/

postimg.org/image/ia4605jln/



Math:

$4,095 = -11REP & +4REP (records)

Now this is 10X more potent than trading for benefit (with a small bonus to the trading planet).



Also, I can't buy anything other than water-fuel from this planet, it simply does not allow me to purchase anything. Nothing is greyed out, but clicking the +1 or attempting to slide the scale results in an on-click color change but no increase in purchasable goods. Is this intentional?




If there are actually bugs here I wouldn't be surprised, my phone is absurdly unreliable (even google maps gets buggy) and I'm getting rid of it soon.



One final question:

Jan 29, 2016 17:13:25 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

For every action, there is a reaction. The key strategy to adopt for Big Tent, is to turn a "Reputation Profit" on your actions. Don't pay 100 Reputation to gain 20 or you're going backwards.

How?
Everything is random, rep gain on a contract is usually around 1-4, and so is rep loss. Even the person with whom I lose rep is random, depending on who that not-actually-Independent actually was. This is exactly how I can complete over 50 contracts with zero overall progress. Not to mention, everything in the entire game is a guess. There's no guide that says exactly the point value or range of rep gain on any action, yet that's exactly what I need to know.

[Cory Trese]

Jan 29, 2016 20:57:15 GMT -5 user9 said:

One final question:

Jan 29, 2016 17:13:25 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

For every action, there is a reaction. The key strategy to adopt for Big Tent, is to turn a "Reputation Profit" on your actions. Don't pay 100 Reputation to gain 20 or you're going backwards.

How?
Everything is random, rep gain on a contract is usually around 1-4, and so is rep loss. Even the person with whom I lose rep is random, depending on who that not-actually-Independent actually was. This is exactly how I can complete over 50 contracts with zero overall progress. Not to mention, everything in the entire game is a guess. There's no guide that says exactly the point value or range of rep gain on any action, yet that's exactly what I need to know.

I was wondering today, maybe I'm crazy. Grabbed my phone, booted up a game of Impossible and took a run at Big Tent.

It took me about 80 minutes, primarily in Trading on Permit goods and doing Contracts. Built a high Negotiation Bounty Hunter -- one to give better Trade results and also permit me to Ignore Contract battles where the target was a political issue.

The game required about 138 trades to get to Big Tent. 44 of those Trades were Records. I purchased 82% of my W-F at Independent Planets. This is definitely not the fastest way to do it, I know some people on the forum have done it MUCH faster.

If you're having trouble predicting the Contract results (which are strictly a combination of Conflict + Map Location) you might want to go after an Officer to help.

I hope some of this conversation is helping. If the game is making you unhappy and you'd like a refund, just drop me an e-mail and I'll take care of it. Star Traders is a demanding game and I can understand that it isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[Cory Trese]

Oh yeah and a -2 from someone not involved in any way with the faction I'm trading with. Just because.

Did your Officer warn you about a Solar War?

And just about now, I LOSE ALL OF MY RECORDS for prices at exchanges, over 15 planets. I find out about 2 planets later. Of course I don't have a before screen because I didn't exactly expect that.

I'm afraid that's caused by the Android OS telling the game that it MUST purge memory. Star Traders is, first and foremost, a good citizen in the Android ecosystem (because following Google's rules is job #1) and when the OS says "release the memory" Star Traders releases it.

At one point in the past we did everything from disk but it was far too slow and caused a lot of unhappy players. We took Google's advice and implemented their in-memory store and performance was fixed -- happy players. The side effect is that the device has a lot more control -- but that's a good thing. Maybe the device needed that memory for an incoming emergency phone call or text message, Star Traders just doesn't know so it is a good app and does what the OS says.

[Cory Trese]

I do appreciate how much effort getting all of those screenshots together took.

I would propose that as you get into the game, that Big Tent not be the focus of your play.

The most common way to play the game is to pick one or two Factions to stay friendly with -- and accept that you're going to have both friends and enemies.

Most players of Star Traders RPG will have massively negative Reputation with a few Factions and massively positive Reputation with a few others.

The optimal way to divide your allies and enemies is along political lines. The Factions are divided into two major groups -- Clans and Syndicates. Try a game where you focus on positive Reputation with one of the groups and accept that when you're a friend of one, there are consequences with the other.

On my current Impossible game, I'm at +250 with each of the Clans and in the -100 range with all of the Syndicates. This gives me safe space to operate (Sectors controlled by Clans) and I make Contract runs into Syndicate territory where most ships are hostile.

Big Tent requires very careful play, and is probably one of the most challenging Awards in the game. I imagine going after it before you've run a few Captains up to Level 50 is probably going to be frustrating because of the complexity of managing all the different nuances of the Exchange, Palace and working Independent systems.

[user9]

Jan 29, 2016 21:35:02 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I'm afraid that's caused by the Android OS telling the game that it MUST purge memory. Star Traders is, first and foremost, a good citizen in the Android ecosystem (because following Google's rules is job #1) and when the OS says "release the memory" Star Traders releases it.

Ahh. That's a problem with my phone. My phone struggles just to run it's own OS.
Still wondering if being not allowed to purchase anything other than water-fuel on a planet is supposed to happen.

Did your Officer warn you about a Solar War?

Built a high Negotiation Bounty Hunter -- one to give better Trade results and also permit me to Ignore Contract battles where the target was a political issue.

If you're having trouble predicting the Contract results (which are strictly a combination of Conflict + Map Location) you might want to go after an Officer to help.

Big Tent requires very careful play, and is probably one of the most challenging Awards in the game. I imagine going after it before you've run a few Captains up to Level 50 is probably going to be frustrating because of the complexity of managing all the different nuances of the Exchange, Palace and working Independent systems.

Thanks for the tips. I can understand now how things are actually working, as a lot of that isn't in the guide. It only says trade embargos cause loss of rep from trading, or spy wars if trading records, and it certainly doesn't say some independents are undercover faction members, or that negotiation helps with ignoring contract battles, and the entry on the political officer is worded vaguely (What does being "deceived" mean?)

And yes, after explaining everything, I can see now that big tent is as difficult as it is complex. I just assumed it was, being next to other awards that are very easy (I completed fast contracts on the first try, and simply surviving until year 76 is even easier). Knowing it's not supposed to be achieved hours after just picking up the game is at least reassuring enough to keep me interested in the rest of the game.

[Cory Trese]

Unfortunately for everyone, the Awards are listed in order of when they were added to the game.

The entire Award system was bolted onto the game after it was released, requested by players. It has flaws that are foundational, due to how it was bolted on. I wish I could fix that, but ... we're looking to the future =)

Star Traders 2, which we are working on now will feature ...

- Inline warnings about Reputation impacts of your Captain's actions
- Sorting the Awards (by difficulty, etc)
- Custom difficulty that lets you turn down Politics, Combat, etc for your own personal play style
- Better graphics
- Reputation with individuals in addition to entire Factions
- Hopefully more fun for everyone =)

[user9]

Jan 29, 2016 22:47:28 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

- Inline warnings about Reputation impacts of your Captain's actions

SOLD