Don't even know where to start lol

[capthawk]

Just had a completely new experience and I'm lost figuring it out.
Ok, I'm Javat, allied to Cadar. But I'm spying on Cadar for an overlap conflict bonus. A warship finds me.
I've always meant to ask cuz I've never figured out, can or should I just surrender if I'm positive rep, rank, permit, warrant?
What I've always done is run, or try to disable and then run, and pay the cost of whatever permit or rank I lose. Especially in this particular car Javat and Cadar had an Alliance.
But, and this part has happened before, I couldn't get away or disable the Cadari (I'm playing level 56, Crazy) . And he actually boarded me on advantage murdering my whole crew. I was in a junk design I was trying to fugue out of I could salvage, and wishing I'd asked here before on the surrender to a friendly but one I'm operating against thing...
So... stuck, unsure, getting wounded, I strafed his deck, retreated and tried ram for the first time ever as I had escape pod on this junk.
Sooo, his hull gets crushed, but I lose all my engines. Next screen I'm sent to jail, but I parole. Confusing...he's dead but I'm still captured?
I check my rep to see the hit and I dropped from +5100 to -5...
I had NO idea there was any one thing I could do so devastating to RP!
So, yeah, in the future should or can I just surrender, and any explanation of how a corpse jailed me or how I could lose so much rep?

[xdesperado]

If you have positive rep and permits then by all means surrender.
Even without permits surrendering and losing records would likely create less negative rep than battling it out.

As for the mutual ship kill thing, it's been explained that your floating in space and the faction got another ship to the location before you could figure a way to get moving.

Would love to see Escape Shuttle get launched in such a situation to avoid the capture/possible death sentence but that's unlikely to be changed at this point.

[slayernz]

I am surprised that the escape shuttle didn't just kick in and let you go on your merry way. However, if you do get into combat and lose (if you and your enemy both have a combat-ending result in the same turn, then it still counts as a loss by you), then you will get detained.

Losing 5000 RP in one go though? It's possible because the game doesn't let you get arrested unless you have -ve RP, and you got arrested. Logic says that you must have -ve RP Only Cory Trese will be able to confirm this blip in the logic tho.

I do know that if you are at, say, -5RP without a TP, and you attack and get defeated by an enemy, there is a possibility that the -ve RP gained from the attack added to the -ve RP from any restricted cargo you may have might push you down to -20rp, and you can get summarily executed. That sucks very badly.

So - rule the first ... if you're going into combat, don't lose. IF it looks like you're going to lose, make sure you don't kill your enemy in the same turn as you also get beaten ... just keep trying to escape until your ship gets destroyed. Then you can jump into your escape shuttle and zoom your way out of there.

"Hold your fire, there are no life forms aboard. It must have been short-circuited"

[Cory Trese]

Blockade always causes Hostile encounters.

Hostile encounters have minimum impact results, MINIMUM regardless of any other arguments.

Prioritization of victory events isn't something that I will be be changing.

This thread all sounds fine to me -- I see absolutely no reason to change these rules.

You wouldn't want Escape Shuttle to trigger here anyway, or you'd end up in Jail and loose your ship and your Reputation -- way worse LOL.

[capthawk]

Thanks desperado, slAyer and Corey!
The captured by another Cadar makes perfect sense. I'd actually had that as the scenario in terms of role playing in my head, cool to learn its the official rule!
From now on I'll just surrender in these cases.
Still curious, if you have time Corey, as to how I lost over 5100 RP off that chain of events? Just curious, I actually enjoyed this as to me it keeps in line with the nature of the game. Devious, shifting alliances indeed! And DV was accidentally positive rep due to conflict overlaps, so it was easy and FUN at lvl 50+ to change my strategy. Luckily, DV and Cadar locations interchange easily for this campaign's objectives.
Also, slayer, MY hull was intact, just 0 engines, so the way I understand it the pod wouldn't have triggered anyway.
Lol just reminded me I read this in Forums, and the was debate whether it works or not, so here's my next question:

Vs. Xeno, if you get to on-board combat phase and are losing, if you surrender before your health is low and before crew is gone or nearly, can you use escape pod?

[xdesperado]

You'd probably already lost rep from the spying.
Every spy action you take will reduce it a bit so unless your checking after every success you may not notice how much it's gone down.
Entering combat also generated more negative rep as did destroying the enemy ship.
By that point you'd likely lost any rank/permit with Cadar you'd held so then the records seized and any other restricted goods (electronics, weapons) you might have had sunk your rep into negative.

[Cory Trese]

Xeno -- no escape pod only triggers on Hull == 0. Desperation Ramming!

The sequence of events is this -- you are hostile in Orbit (Spy.)

A ship, that might not otherwise be Hostile enters hostile.

You loose the combat via a tie -- the hostile ship always wins if the ownership of the sector matches. In this case, you just lost to a hostile ship.

The ship checks you out, you are a Spy. Go to Prison. While in Prison, your Faction Reputation is set to -5. Somewhere along the way you probably lost an Edict or Rank or something and dropped below the minimum threshold for protection from Prison.

[capthawk]

I'm good at managing RP normally. Like I said, I was over 5100 RP to begin my spy raid. A few weeks surveillance undetected is minimal lost RP. A normal win would have been somewhat more loss in rep, and likely some or all of my royal documents.
So it has to be the unique double loss result that caused the massive drop in rep and imprisonment, doesn't it?

[Cory Trese]

Feb 22, 2016 14:26:29 GMT -5 capthawk said:

I'm good at managing RP normally. Like I said, I was over 5100 RP to begin my spy raid. A few weeks surveillance undetected is minimal lost RP. A normal win would have been somewhat more loss in rep, and likely some or all of my royal documents.
So it has to be the unique double loss result that caused the massive drop in rep and imprisonment, doesn't it?

No, just going through Imprisoned. That's all it was, the case described isn't even all that rare -- that will teach you to betray your Faction sponsors and Spy on them

While in Prison, your Faction Reputation is set to -5.

It doesn't matter if you had -600, +5000 or +1 billion. It will be set to -5. Consider this a pardon if you're a criminal ... or a harsh judgement if you were previously loyal.

[capthawk]

Feb 22, 2016 14:22:09 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Xeno -- no escape pod only triggers on Hull == 0. Desperation Ramming!

The sequence of events is this -- you are hostile in Orbit (Spy.)

A ship, that might not otherwise be Hostile enters hostile.

You loose the combat via a tie -- the hostile ship always wins if the ownership of the sector matches. In this case, you just lost to a hostile ship.

The ship checks you out, you are a Spy. Go to Prison. While in Prison, your Faction Reputation is set to -5. Somewhere along the way you probably lost an Edict or Rank or something and dropped below the minimum threshold for protection from Prison.

Lol you responded as I was answering desperado.
Thanks for clearing up pod vs. Xeno, will save me from using a captain up as a guinea pig!
Your explanation makes perfect sense. In the real world, I'd be court martialed if I spied on my own country or allies for mercenary gain.
It wouldn't be a slap on the wrist, oh you lost a little regard in our eyes, just pay a couple fines and happy mercing!
Not sure why if I'd outright killed or disabled him, the penalty is minimal using this logic though. I guess it's game balance, if the penalty was too harsh all the time, it would grind our captains to a stand still.
I just would've liked to see the sequence in game that led me to drop 5100 rep in one encounter. Sorry to ramble, it's just intriguing me to no end. I'm going to avoid this sequence anyway, unless I use it to register a hatred award.
Thanks again for the prompt responses!

[Cory Trese]

I do not understand this line at all:

"Not sure why if I'd outright killed or disabled him, the penalty is minimal using this logic though."

I'd like to try to explain and remove the confusion, but I do not understand.

[capthawk]

Feb 22, 2016 14:49:44 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

Feb 22, 2016 14:26:29 GMT -5 capthawk said:

I'm good at managing RP normally. Like I said, I was over 5100 RP to begin my spy raid. A few weeks surveillance undetected is minimal lost RP. A normal win would have been somewhat more loss in rep, and likely some or all of my royal documents.
So it has to be the unique double loss result that caused the massive drop in rep and imprisonment, doesn't it?

No, just going through Imprisoned. That's all it was, the case described isn't even all that rare -- that will teach you to betray your Faction sponsors and Spy on them

While in Prison, your Faction Reputation is set to -5.

It doesn't matter if you had -600, +5000 or +1 billion. It will be set to -5. Consider this a pardon if you're a criminal ... or a harsh judgement if you were previously loyal.

Lol @ "That'll teach you..." yes, yes it will.
If my rep had been -600, as per your example, wouldn't it be execution though?

[capthawk]

Feb 22, 2016 14:57:19 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I do not understand this line at all:

"Not sure why if I'd outright killed or disabled him, the penalty is minimal using this logic though."

I'd like to try to explain and remove the confusion, but I do not understand.

Hopscotch posts lol
Ok, I mean if I'm operating against a friendly, and get an encounter, if I flee or win the faction penalizes me, but it's only a few Rep and Edicts. It seems I'm being just as evil as in my official draw result question, yet they don't knock me down much at all. Wouldn't a disabled captain limp back to base and report me?

[Cory Trese]

Feb 22, 2016 15:11:47 GMT -5 capthawk said:

Feb 22, 2016 14:57:19 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

I do not understand this line at all:

"Not sure why if I'd outright killed or disabled him, the penalty is minimal using this logic though."

I'd like to try to explain and remove the confusion, but I do not understand.

Hopscotch posts lol
Ok, I mean if I'm operating against a friendly, and get an encounter, if I flee or win the faction penalizes me, but it's only a few Rep and Edicts. It seems I'm being just as evil as in my official draw result question, yet they don't knock me down much at all. Wouldn't a disabled captain limp back to base and report me?

Not in Star Traders, no. Since your character is a Captain, a licensed Star Traders and a Holder of Rights per the Great Construction, his or her particular freedom from accusations extends in a rigorously enforced and ritualized way.

Being captured and taken before the Senate Judges is very, very, very, very different.

[Cory Trese]

Feb 22, 2016 15:06:01 GMT -5 capthawk said:

Feb 22, 2016 14:49:44 GMT -5 Cory Trese said:

No, just going through Imprisoned. That's all it was, the case described isn't even all that rare -- that will teach you to betray your Faction sponsors and Spy on them

While in Prison, your Faction Reputation is set to -5.

It doesn't matter if you had -600, +5000 or +1 billion. It will be set to -5. Consider this a pardon if you're a criminal ... or a harsh judgement if you were previously loyal.

Lol @ "That'll teach you..." yes, yes it will.
If my rep had been -600, as per your example, wouldn't it be execution though?

Sorry, it was an example. Depending on the situation, -600 might yield an Execution defeat.

But regardless!!! If you have a Prison defeat, your Reputation is set to -5.

If you had -7 it would be set to -5.
If you had -121 it would be set to -5.
If you had -600 and avoided Execution due to a Rumor + Edict then it would be set to -5.

Different types of Ships use different defeat logic, and different Reputation thresholds.

Bounty Hunters are more lenient than Military Ships and Merchants ships even more so.