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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 21:57:49 GMT -5
Cory Trese, how about you start with a basic set of star charts that only give you navigational abilities to major population centers outside the core worlds of your home quadrant. The rest is found by exploration or buying charts from contacts.
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Post by qbspy on Mar 19, 2016 22:01:48 GMT -5
Two things...I don't wanna play the navigator. I don't wanna play the guy that cleans up, or cooks, or polishes the displays. I don't wanna be the task master of the newest employees, or the guy who makes sure all my crew is individually paid. I want control of the game, but I don't want a chew button.
What do you usually hear about space? Locations, and distances to locations, and odd things happening in roughly specific spaces. Since mapping is the foundation of human space work, I feel that mapping can be taken for granted in the ST universe.
In summary, I feel that a generic "go to" button is more than reasonable. The captain shouldn't be doing every job, and if one job has been done, it's probably the "what's that way?" job. Allowing for random weirdness. This is space after all.
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 19, 2016 22:36:59 GMT -5
Two things...I don't wanna play the navigator. I don't wanna play the guy that cleans up, or cooks, or polishes the displays. I don't wanna be the task master of the newest employees, or the guy who makes sure all my crew is individually paid. I want control of the game, but I don't want a chew button. What do you usually hear about space? Locations, and distances to locations, and odd things happening in roughly specific spaces. Since mapping is the foundation of human space work, I feel that mapping can be taken for granted in the ST universe. In summary, I feel that a generic "go to" button is more than reasonable. The captain shouldn't be doing every job, and if one job has been done, it's probably the "what's that way?" job. Allowing for random weirdness. This is space after all. Odd I look at it sort of like in Star Trek. In the Alpha and Beta Quadrants they had pretty good mapping about what was where, but in the Delta Quadrant from Voyager and beyond the wormhole in DS9 they had to fly by the seat of their pants and chart stuff as they went when unable to locate local sources of information. It's not about doing all the individual crew members various jobs per say, but about creating a realistic rpg with exploration and discovery as core elements. You don't want to have to go off exploring the unknown? Stick with areas you've got charts for or find/buy charts to. From sounds of it you're not going to start completely blind like in ST4X but hopefully will also leave plenty of room for that same search into the unknown. |
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Post by Kanly on Mar 19, 2016 22:40:52 GMT -5
One more thought on this: many contracts direct you to a specific planet or coordinate. In this case it would make sense to have autopilot. The people giving you the job should be giving you the info on how to there.
Probably included already.
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Post by John Robinson on Mar 19, 2016 23:10:06 GMT -5
So this week we've been hard at work on building a pathing system that is fuel intelligent, not dependent on pre-computed nav meshes and is smart enough to navigate across both Quadrant maps and across the procedurally generated gate network that connects those Quadrants. So one of the big questions I'm looking at today ... should the ST2 Captain be able to auto-nav to things they've never visited? In ST RPG, the Captain is assumed to have an accurate map of the entire Quadrant and can navigate to any place on the map, regardless of their personal experience with that place. It seems, in a way, counter to the mission of ST2 having a vast and unexplored network of Quadrants. Very interested to hear the thoughts of backers of ST2, Patreons and players of ST RPG. Would you want to be able to automatically navigate to a System you'd never visited? Set waypoints across gates you've never explored? Auto-nav from gate to gate makes sense, allot of people should know where most of those are by now but... Even the most highly experienced Navigator probably wouldn't auto-nav into an unexplored area at speeds faster than light. One asteroid and you're a bug on the windshield. How would you know where high radiation zones were or other hazards unless you've seen it for yourself? Will the captain risk his life on a map bought in some spice den? But let's forget the obstacles for a moment. How about the fun factor? In ST2 there are many quadrants representing a mind boggling big area of the galaxy or universe. I think the need for exploration would really make it fun fun fun. Keeps you wondering what's out there. I'm thinking about the kind of maps Christopher Columbus and other early explorers had. They were expensive when available, and often closely guarded state secrets. In your home quadrant you should be able to auto-nave to the major known planets, but even in your home quadrant there could be allot of unexplored areas that remain a mystery. It gets a little stale to think you just plot your course from point-a to point-b all the time. You might have to make an expedition out of it the first time? You don't want to run out of fuel and food, so creating caches on small planets you discovered would provide forward bases to move deeper into the quadrants. Perhaps entrepreneurs have built some space stations on the fringe of known space where supplies could be purchased and cargoes traded. The area of space is so big undiscovered planets could be added all the time that a space traveler might have missed with long range sensors on the first visit. Of course once you've been to a place it should be pretty easy to auto-nav back to it. You could really hit the jackpot on finding artifacts, abandoned space stations, opening trade with an unknown indie planet. On the other hand.. Many players who want to get into ship building, crew development, trade and warfare quickly could feel bogged down because exploration really isn't the reason they want to play. When you are given a mission in ST1 you are given coordinates so somebody thinks you can navigate there without slamming into a rock to complete the mission. Who knows what crazy wonderful stuff you two will come up with. (I would like to see one new quadrant so far out that it is largely unexplored, if you want to exploit it you'll have to work for it.  ) |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 20, 2016 0:16:41 GMT -5
That split desire -- exploration vs. ship building is one of the reasons we're allowing map size and density to be player options during map generation. If you'd like a smaller, simpler, less hostile and complex world just turn all the knobs down to easy.
If you want a sprawling galaxy, full of hundreds of quadrants and thousands of planets ... turn them all up to 11 and prepare for a century of exploration.
As in Star Traders RPG, the player has to balance many roles on the ship. You will decide when to buy fuel, you'll be the navigator (deciding where to go) and when to pay the Crew. You'll decide who to promote, who to fire and which Faction you want to hire new Crew from.
That said, we won't loose sight of what made ST RPG fun ... that you can pick a few mechanics you like to play and mostly ignore the rest. No matter if you like to Explore or blow up Pirates ... you still need Fuel, Crew, Rank and some Credits.
Great feedback so far, very encouraging. It sounds like the direction I'm going is, in general, exciting for people.
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 20, 2016 6:59:35 GMT -5
I will be one of those people who turns the knob to 12 when it comes to map generation.
I will never sleep when ST2's Alpha begins.
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 20, 2016 9:39:03 GMT -5
Today I'm spending time making sure that the procedural generator honors planet surface characteristics when establishing colonies.
That is to say, no Farming on Magma worlds and no Luxury Population centers on Radiation Wastes. The Planet type will influence danger, the planet size will influence gravity (and max population, fuel costs, duration of seasons) ...
We are going to have some fun with this alpha my friends =)
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 20, 2016 10:32:35 GMT -5
Today I'm spending time making sure that the procedural generator honors planet surface characteristics when establishing colonies. That is to say, no Farming on Magma worlds and no Luxury Population centers on Radiation Wastes. The Planet type will influence danger, the planet size will influence gravity (and max population, fuel costs, duration of seasons) ... We are going to have some fun with this alpha my friends =) You should just start sending out the APK, because you are dropping so many tidbits that it is almost torture waiting for the Alpha to start. I am so friggin excited for it! |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 20, 2016 10:48:05 GMT -5
It is really tempting to try to release too early, but I think in the end everyone will be happier if we get it right.
Requires patience from all of us, me and you, but the end result will be, I believe, a better game.
If you compare the quality of the alpha from AoP to BF, the difference is stark.
I am posting as much as I can about the progress, both to keep our backers informed and to gather feedback.
I know your ability to respond would be greater with an APK in your hands, but I'm hoping we can still get good responses even with just threads and KS meetings.
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 20, 2016 10:51:05 GMT -5
I know that you three have good reasons for not releasing this early. I'm just busting your chops about it. I'm just really excited about ST2  |
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Post by En1gma on Mar 20, 2016 11:05:21 GMT -5
If the alpha is anything like the BF alpha, then I'm seriously never going to sleep again. I've been waiting and waiting for this, and my nails can't get any more chewed...
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 20, 2016 11:08:31 GMT -5
If the alpha is anything like the BF alpha, then I'm seriously never going to sleep again. I've been waiting and waiting for this, and my nails can't get any more chewed... has challenged the entire TB team to exceed the awesome of the BF alpha by at least 100% for ST2. It is a tall order, but we've got a legion of KS backers and the biggest budget[*] we've ever had for a game. [*] Still less than 20% of the industry average for a game of this size, but it qualifies as our largest yet. |
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 20, 2016 12:01:00 GMT -5
If the alpha is anything like the BF alpha, then I'm seriously never going to sleep again. I've been waiting and waiting for this, and my nails can't get any more chewed... has challenged the entire TB team to exceed the awesome of the BF alpha by at least 100% for ST2. It is a tall order, but we've got a legion of KS backers and the biggest budget[*] we've ever had for a game. [*] Still less than 20% of the industry average for a game of this size, but it qualifies as our largest yet. Wow. I'm glad to have been a part of funding your biggest project yet |
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Post by tenbsmith on Mar 20, 2016 19:23:45 GMT -5
Cory Trese said, "That said, we won't loose sight of what made ST RPG fun ... that you can pick a few mechanics you like to play and mostly ignore the rest. No matter if you like to Explore or blow up Pirates ... you still need Fuel, Crew, Rank and some Credits." I really like that about ST. Please do keep it. I want exploration. And when exploring, I like navigating by hand. i tend to be cautious and would like to uncover things as I go rather than suddenly be surrounded by hostiles. In that spirit, I like the idea of there being quadrants that can only be uncovered through exploration. I like the idea of easy navigation in the home quadrant, and possibly neighboring quadrants. Being able to buy charts is a cool idea. Here's a twist on previous suggestions: some missions come with navigation data, others don't. The player is informed prior to choosing the mission if the nav data is available. Imagine an exploration mission where you are given the coordinates of a valuable artifact, but not navigation data, so you have to fly there by the seat of your pants. Imagine choosing between two missions: 1) A low profit, low risk mission with nav data; OR, 2) a high profit, high risk mission with NO nav data to a far away quadrant. Those sorts of missions could be very cool.
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