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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 19:44:41 GMT -5
If you're a ST 4X player, you may have noticed the major improvements to ship pathing in the latest releases. These updates make certain that your fleets move along the most fuel efficient paths possible.
Some of this work was driven by ST2 projects and underlying improvements to the pathing system in the generic part of our game engine.
The exiting part is in ST2, however. We've always relied on hand built maps, and pre-computed navigation meshes, to power our game's pathing systems in the past.
However, with the commitment that ST2 use a procedurally generated map, pre-computed navigation meshes aren't really a viable option. That said, we know from CK and AOP experience that the ST RPG model of "route once, fly directly" is far preferable to methods where manual routing is required.
So this week we've been hard at work on building a pathing system that is fuel intelligent, not dependent on pre-computed nav meshes and is smart enough to navigate across both Quadrant maps and across the procedurally generated gate network that connects those Quadrants.
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So one of the big questions I'm looking at today ... should the ST2 Captain be able to auto-nav to things they've never visited? In ST RPG, the Captain is assumed to have an accurate map of the entire Quadrant and can navigate to any place on the map, regardless of their personal experience with that place.
It seems, in a way, counter to the mission of ST2 having a vast and unexplored network of Quadrants.
Very interested to hear the thoughts of backers of ST2, Patreons and players of ST RPG. Would you want to be able to automatically navigate to a System you'd never visited? Set waypoints across gates you've never explored?
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on Mar 19, 2016 19:51:09 GMT -5
I think that in the case of well established Quadrants, those above a certain tech level, it could be assumed that maps are easy to come by and up to date. Low tech or sparsly populated Quadrants should have poor maps, if any are available.
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Post by Kanly on Mar 19, 2016 20:52:13 GMT -5
It would be cool to have a fog of war system for the first time visiting a system. Alternatively maybe you can purchase star charts of a new system?
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 20:54:01 GMT -5
It would be cool to have a fog of war system for the first time visiting a system. Alternatively maybe you can purchase star charts of a new system? There is fog of war, stored inside the saved game for each quadrant. It also tracks which gates you've used and which planets you've orbited. Maybe this could be tied to difficulty, but that makes it a lot harder to implement. The question is ... should your navigator be able to plot exact courses through space you haven't explored ... |
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Post by En1gma on Mar 19, 2016 21:01:15 GMT -5
Now, can we do the same thing for the pathing engine for HoS?
I haven't played 4X for a while, do it will be interesting to watch the new changes-- these games just keep getting better!!
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 21:09:50 GMT -5
Now, can we do the same thing for the pathing engine for HoS? I haven't played 4X for a while, do it will be interesting to watch the new changes-- these games just keep getting better!! What type of pathing system changes would you like for HoS? I don't know if any of the changes we've made are relevant ... since HoS doesn't use fuel and doesn't necessarily have any of the other metadata we're driving the pathing from. I'm happy to try to make changes, but beating the various dead horses in HoS land won't get much traction (ie, avoiding fog'd areas, avoiding X non-map factor, etc) |
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 19, 2016 21:10:44 GMT -5
I'd say no on being able to auto nav into a completely new quadrant.
You should be required to have at least a basic map available of a quadrant's major systems before being able to auto nav to them.
Understand adding some sort of purchase of "Star Charts/Trade Routes" will add complexity to system but makes more sense in a system that has both fog of war coverage and multiple gates between different maps.
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 21:14:45 GMT -5
being able to buy star maps from your Contacts would be an interesting idea.
blocking routing makes exploration of the universe you've created more fun.
I think both ideas are worth discussing. That's why I asked you'll for inputs.
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Post by En1gma on Mar 19, 2016 21:16:42 GMT -5
Cory Trese, I only meant the long range pathing, where the heroes will move erratically from area to area. After I posted that I thought the same thing-- that they were probably not related whatsoever. I always see the character bouncing off the walls or going into places that have nothing to do with where I want them to go. It really only bothers me when I trigger a group unintentionally because of it, or walk over a trap that I shouldn't have even been near. No dead horses, just having fun in the forum tonight, talking with some of my favorite developers and like-minded individuals.
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 21:17:08 GMT -5
Just now I was able to successfully use the cross-universe routing system successfully for the first time. I told the game I wanted to go to Quadrant 29 from Quadrant 1 and it plotted a 17 jump route between the two. I was able to simply press "Nav >>" 17 times and the ship located the gates and flew to them automatically. I cheated (exploited, hacked, whatever) my ship to have 6.5million fuel so I don't have to stop at any of these Steel Song planets along the way  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 19, 2016 21:19:50 GMT -5
I always see the character bouncing off the walls or going into places that have nothing to do with where I want them to go. It really only bothers me when I trigger a group unintentionally because of it, or walk over a trap that I shouldn't have even been near. I'm not sure about that ... if you could post a video or a screenshot I could definitely form an opinion about it. I know that's a bit tricky, as an ask, but any additional information would help me at least be on the same page. I'm neck deep in A*, Breezey and Dijkstra so today is the day to put forward your pathing puzzles. =) |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 19, 2016 21:20:10 GMT -5
Cory Trese , I only meant the long range pathing, where the heroes will move erratically from area to area. After I posted that I thought the same thing-- that they were probably not related whatsoever. I always see the character bouncing off the walls or going into places that have nothing to do with where I want them to go. It really only bothers me when I trigger a group unintentionally because of it, or walk over a trap that I shouldn't have even been near. No dead horses, just having fun in the forum tonight, talking with some of my favorite developers and like-minded individuals. This... |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 21:21:09 GMT -5
Hi Cory Trese. I think that your captain should be able to navigate between planets and systems of the 'core' because they are more established, well travelled, and have current navigational charts. As the captain travels further away from the high tech power hubs of the core and into the worlds of the outer rim, he should only be able to travel to areas he has visited previously until he personally verified his charts and updated his nav computer. So travelling to one world could open up a couple other paths. Traveling one, would open up others, etc. One big web that is discovered a bit at a time. |
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Mar 19, 2016 21:22:00 GMT -5
I always see the character bouncing off the walls or going into places that have nothing to do with where I want them to go. It really only bothers me when I trigger a group unintentionally because of it, or walk over a trap that I shouldn't have even been near. I'm not sure about that ... if you could post a video or a screenshot I could definitely form an opinion about it. I know that's a bit tricky, as an ask, but any additional information would help me at least be on the same page. I'm neck deep in A*, Breezey and Dijkstra so today is the day to put forward your pathing puzzles. =) Breezey? I hadn't read up on that one. Maybe I'll look it up when my stomach stops being queasy and i can think straight... |
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Post by xdesperado on Mar 19, 2016 21:23:11 GMT -5
being able to buy star maps from your Contacts would be an interesting idea. blocking routing makes exploration of the universe you've created more fun. I think both ideas are worth discussing. That's why I asked you'll for inputs. The idea of being able to find contacts for getting things like Star Charts, possible Trade Routes, information on lucrative Smuggling opportunities etc. sounds excellent. Yeah my Captain can take his ship and crew out into the great unknown to explore and find this sort of information out on their own, but at times having an option to buy some information in advance would be great. Even better if such information had a reliability system where it could vary from complete 100% accuracy to that fabled map to the pirate hoard that may be a complete fabrication and dump me in the middle of nowhere surrounded by hostile Xeno... |
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