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Post by John Robinson on Apr 22, 2016 0:10:47 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before elsewhere but in my opinion for a Surprise round melee Talent to be good she's going to need some extra MP added. Far to often even when you win Surprise the enemies are a good 7-8 or more squares away meaning that initial surprise turn without some sort of ranged attack or lots of extra MP gets spent in attempting to gain positional advantage. This is especially true considering that Selen with her light blades or 1H swords isn't likely even with a critical to take out opponents with a single attack. Giving it added utility outside of the surprise round will definitely help make it more attractive, but if it's best stuff is tied to the surprise round only then she'll need some way to capitalize on that regularly. I agree. Here's a fever dream. On stealth win. If S&S is an AoE there would be more chances of getting a kill. But wait there's more. Now take a cue form Vrae's Juggernaut. She kills she gets extra mp/ap. How does that sound to you xdesperado? Am I just being a happy idiot watching my own delirious mental movie? |
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Post by xdesperado on Apr 22, 2016 0:26:09 GMT -5
I know it's been mentioned before elsewhere but in my opinion for a Surprise round melee Talent to be good she's going to need some extra MP added. Far to often even when you win Surprise the enemies are a good 7-8 or more squares away meaning that initial surprise turn without some sort of ranged attack or lots of extra MP gets spent in attempting to gain positional advantage. This is especially true considering that Selen with her light blades or 1H swords isn't likely even with a critical to take out opponents with a single attack. Giving it added utility outside of the surprise round will definitely help make it more attractive, but if it's best stuff is tied to the surprise round only then she'll need some way to capitalize on that regularly. I agree. Here's a fever dream. On stealth win. If S&S is an AoE there would be more chances of getting a kill. But wait there's more. Now take a cue form Vrae's Juggernaut. She kills she gets extra mp/ap. How does that sound to you xdesperado? Am I just being a happy idiot watching my own delirious mental movie? I believe there's already been some discussion of giving S&S a Juggernaut like +MP/AP effect, however my counter argument to that is fact of how much MP/AP she may need to spend just to get 1 or two attacks in during a surprise turn. Against enemies that are probably not fully cursed and likely to be largely undamaged odds of her getting consistent kills with her weapons is probably not great meaning she'll have a hard time getting any MP/AP return. Instead maybe give her a large +MP boost for just won surprise turns and a smaller +MP buff from successful attacks to add utility in non surprise turns and set encounters where surprise isn't possible. Even with a big +MP boost though there will be a concern about her getting seperated from rest of party and out of mutual support range. Another concern for melee based surprise attack. |
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Post by John Robinson on Apr 22, 2016 0:51:15 GMT -5
xdesperado You are so right! I've had little faith in the current state of S&S for those exact reasons. Getting a rocket assist of mp to make a kamikaze run against uncursed/undamaged monsters makes no sense. Especially since she will get hung up in the infantry front lines while the archers sitting another 6 to 8 tiles behind the skirmish lines just skewer her. All the characters are at their best when supporting the others. "Fools rush in where Angels fear to dread". 
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Post by mushroom on Apr 22, 2016 15:12:31 GMT -5
Are you able to make an attack AOE only during the surprise round? A low power punishing blades, maybe with -acc, that's aoe during surprise. That would be a fun version of this talent. The thing about Steel and Shadow is that it is a Stealth Surprise Talent. So, that nature of it is not going to go away. Much like the improvement to Tamilin's stealth surprise Talent, we're interested in making it useful even when you aren't in a Surprise Round. Tamilin's now includes a great -Armor curse for every day use. But, both Talents are always going to have a larger part of their balance dedicated to working in the Stealth Round. |
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Post by fallen on Apr 22, 2016 15:17:26 GMT -5
Thanks for all the feedback! We'll keep grinding away. Sacrifice is now tucked into bed, right next to Immolation. S&S is probably next!
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 22, 2016 15:19:04 GMT -5
Always fun to work with everyone on these games.
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