Cruisers or fighters

[contributor]

I honestly haven't played this game like some of the TB games, that is to say I haven't tried every possible combination yet, but am very happy with a cruiser and strike cruiser focused fleet. I've gone with the approach that it's best to do a few things well, so I've put all my research into these two types of ships. Currently I'm playing The Garden on Insane vs. 3. I think that three enemies might in some ways be as bad or worse than 6 enemies, because it allows for some very big, advanced xeno empires. Anyways, looking at the way things are now I notice that most of my fleets consist of about 3 heavy cruisers. Even where I am pushing back against the most advanced xeno I have two fleets of three cruisers with 8 invasion ships each in tow. The fleets aren't far from each other so the one can come to the aid of the other, but really that never happens because they're more than capable of dealing with the steady drip of enemy ships coming in.

My builds aren't very imaginative. I have Gunnies and Torpies which are pretty much focused on one thing each. The Gunnies especially have high armor so they tend to never die and accumulate a lot of xp (actually the only ships I've lost this whole game are invasion ships). My biggest ships are rocking the 8k reactors. I find myself wondering what a fighter based fleet would be like, but at the same time I'm pretty happy with the way things are. I'm now in the stage of the game where I'm pretty sure that the tide has turned decisively in my favor even though the enemy holds around 70 combined worlds. I'm looking at trying to wrap this up as quickly as possible so I'm not interested in rebuilding my entire fleet. I think one of the things I like most about cruisers is the small fleets. I can keep an entire fleet plus invasion ships on the print of a single planet and turns don't consist of endless directing of dozens of smaller craft.

Anyways I guess I'm curious about others experiences. What am I missing by neglecting fighters? What do your fleets normally look like?

[En1gma]

I always run Cruisers as the base of my fleet. I typically have one/two Rail cruisers, 2 Torp cruisers, and late game I build one with almost everything into armor, Hull, and put a medium Rail on it for an impossible to kill behemoth.

I do run a balanced amount of fighters and carriers however, and I use carriers especially for Torp support, and they never see the front lines. Fighters get the best 2/4 Reactor I can afford and they are built for either maximum damage or avoidance or scouting.

[giddion]

I like to use fighters with 4mp and 2ap, then equip with a gun that costs 1ap,this way I always get 2 attacks. Typically I have a 4 to ratio of heavy attack and precision attack, this is so I can have basic barrage too, which is always useful.
I have 1 refuel Carrier and 1 repair, both do torps, multi torp.

I used to do it they way you do, but I find the fighters with 4 move and 2 attacks, that can be repaired and refuelled are superior on all counts. Then add a couple of torp ships, and a scout to the armada.

[Cory Trese]

Mathematically speaking, Cruisers have a substantial advantage in the long term of the game.

However, Fighters provide a short term advantage and are more flexible / mobile.

[tenbsmith]

I like to play on smaller maps, where you run into the Xeno earlier. In these cases, fighters are essential as you can unlock the required tech and produce them quickly and inexpensively.

I have early-game fighter designs that cost the same CP/$ as the canned fighter design, only require you to unlock a few techs (2?) and are effective on hard into mid-game (possibly effective beyond that, but I haven't tested yet).

These fighter have lower hull and higher evasion. They're very good as a defensive fleet that can quickly slip back into green space for repairs after being hit.

I think fighters are very cost-effective as defensive units.

[En1gma]

You see, I'm torn about whether or not Fighters/Carriers are more efficient than running primarily Cruisers.

Fighters take tons of damage if you don't go for high evasion, and while they repair fairly quickly by themselves, each injured fighter costs you maintenance, an effect compounded by the number of Fighters, how much damage they take, and how long your fleet needs to return to fighting strength. So you add Carriers. Of course you add Carriers. These flagships require a ton of upkeep, and are essentially high maint torp boats that can heal and refuel. This takes some of the maint costs off of the Fighters and tosses it onto the Carriers for refuel costs. This helps balance this issue out for sure, but results in a minimum investment in both Carriers and Fighters, in order to make sure that damage keeps getting put on the Xeno.
-Let's not forget the insane upkeep cost for a top of the line Fighter-- some of the deigns I've made cost the same as a comparable Cruiser, while being somewhat squishy, and needing constant repair/refuel aid.

Now let's look at a Cruiser centered fleet: Two Torp Cruisers, light armor, heaviest Torps you can stick on them. Capable of finishing off any ship within range, almost every time. Two or three Railgun Cruisers. Medium Armor and Heaviest Rail that will fit. Let's just say that the costs for this are comparable to a fleet of 6 for the Fighter brigade (Let's just say 1 each repair/refuel, and 4 fighters)
-By having Cruisers dedicated to firing Torps over the shoulder of the heavy railguns, you have reliable removal (Carriers aren't nearly as effective at this until later due to hull restrictions keeping their Torp load inferior...), which helps keep damage off your front line.
-Railguns frequently result in one-shots, and if they fail to kill, the Torp Cruisers behind can almost always get the kill. Again, effective removal, as well as being far more W/F efficient-- They can kill in one shot, where a Fighter will need 2-3+, burning multiples of fuel, which needs to be replenished. Having medium armor and decent repair means that while they have no direct means of fast repair, proper fleet organization and management results in ships that take small amounts of damage, then return to full very quickly.

While you may pay more in per-turn maint using Cruisers, the benefit is less ships needed to hold the line, less damage taken, less W/F used, and effective damage output, which demoralizes the enemy and can result in a shorter combat cycle if they learn their lesson by losing two/three ships per round while they inflict next to nothing on player ships.

[giddion]

I will admit I am talking early and mid game, fighters and boarding are very affective.
I also play smaller maps, at high difficulty and have contact very early.

[starlord61]

I'm in a Hard level game on a Huge map (100 x 100) with two AI enemies (one is Red Zorga!). It is late game (over 500 moves?) and I have eliminated one AI and now face off with the Zorga. My fleets are a large collection of somewhat advanced fighters (ship level 4) with 2ap and 3 mp. I love getting two hits from each fighter. I have the Templar ships, four medium advanced cruisers for torp and 6 battlecruisers ( I call them Bruisers) all for torp throwing. In addition I have built a couple repair carriers, a couple refuel carriers and about 8 dedicated refuel ships with no weapons that were once cruiser models. I also have a few original out-of-the box fighters and solar scout ships for...scouting. This is a Large Fleet I think. But hey, it's all for fun. I have 77 active ships with 69% maintenance. Woo hoo! I like the idea of just a few very advanced cruiser ships and I might try reducing the size of my fleet after I see how my cruisers and especially the battlecruisers do against the Red Zorga. I like the fighters for their mobility and how they hit hard (fast reactor 5VM Whirlwind MK II gun, Enhanced Duranium Cladding).

My Bruiser cruisers are level 7 ships with Heavy Reactor 6, 2ap 3mp, with the Wolf Railgun and Barracuda Torpedo. I want to admit, while it is late game I don't have all the highest military tech yet. I focused on politics and the economy much more. I am looking forward to how these ships fare against the Red Zorga. We shall see.

About how my ships look, I'll just say my fighters look like the ships from the Independence Day movie somewhat and my normal cruisers look like oversized original fighters except bright green. I like to use different colors to help sort out fighting ships versus healers-fuelers.

I'm definitely going to try the smaller fleets next, as I spend a lot of time micro managing ships each turn, plus the economy! I'll try to post an after action report for my current game here. Wish me luck!

[starlord61]

P.S.: I also have about 12 invasion ships, to attack two ai worlds at a time with six ships each. And I use colony ships as well of course, with the Colony 2 upgrade so I get a good start for each new colony.

[havnor]

I don't know but having gun, boarding, torpedo fighters with repair and refuel stations seems to me quite superior...You don't even need to put points into repair and can boost your ship more... So I would say fighters are better but only when you have alta mesa coz missing Torpedos leaves you in melee range and without it cruisers are better...

[En1gma]

It all depends...

Fighters are reasonably effective at handling every Xeno type that isn't a Jyeeta. You can have a very diverse and capable fleet using fighters and carriers, no arguing that point-- it can be done. My issue with Fighters is that they take tons of damage, and burn tons of W/F, making their upkeep higher than just the maintenance cost, as they need repair and refuel almost every turn.

My argument for Cruisers I detail above, but I think it is cheaper in the long run to have 3-4 Cruisers handle an entire front than to have an entire fleet of fighters and carriers to do the same job at a higher cost, not to mention the added complexity and time per turn for micro.

[havnor]

It's all about quality VS quantity... Anyway i would say you should start with fighter fleet and then advence right into battlecruisers for example if you need more power...

[starlord61]

I won the game against 2ai and finished by beating Red Zorga easily. The refuelers were handy for taking the Ai worlds faster.

. I would say 80% of the fighting was done by my fighter craft. The rest by cruisers. But I will try out using cruisers as my main force. Should be interesting/ fun. I just need to figure out a good cruiser build for late game.

[havnor]

Apr 17, 2017 17:10:04 GMT -5 starlord61 said:

I won the game against 2ai and finished by beating Red Zorga easily. The refuelers were handy for taking the Ai worlds faster.

. I would say 80% of the fighting was done by my fighter craft. The rest by cruisers. But I will try out using cruisers as my main force. Should be interesting/ fun. I just need to figure out a good cruiser build for late game.

Try that one special for Thulun Im more than satisfied with them in late game...

[deucemaccoy]

My force tends to marry these ideas. Each point of potential xeno contact (typically 2 or 3 areas) have a basic 4 ship defense. 2 fighters that focus on evade with VM Whirlwind guns that have the higher defense, an assault fighter to weaken the target for each combat round, being supported by a carrier for repair and the occasional swift kick in the pants if it is needed with the railgun's higher firepower. I usually have a weak torp on the carrier, just to round it out.

I also build a 3 ship carrier fleet that heavily focuses on torps, with the basic torp attack as primary (for retalliation strikes) and torp spread as their standard offensive choice. This fleet I keep somewhat centrally located so it can respond to wherever the fighting is hottest. Sometimes, especially on larger maps, the need for a second cruiser fleet comes up, but not often.

I am beginning my second wave of ship research in my current game. I may just have to give this cruiser based fleet a chance. I will probably stick with the 4 ship standard defense, but have 3 railgun cruisers backed up by a heavy torper.