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Post by fallen on May 14, 2016 10:44:25 GMT -5
A support the devs consumable iap is fine as an alternative to patreon, but other arcade quarter suck like gimmicks and timers are of course a sure fire way for me to quick the whole company of games. That's a fascinating concept. We've talked about it a few times, and maybe we should just try it out in one of the games. Suspicion is that it will generate very low returns, but then again, its a 1% effort add. Thanks for the entire post, great info! |
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Post by fallen on May 14, 2016 10:46:48 GMT -5
John Robinson - thanks for the full reply! We like to think of our pricing models, such as the BF model (All-in Forever), as experiments. No guarantee we'll do them twice. Even trying a $9.99 game on mobile was fascinating to see, at it puts us up in the price range of the big studios on the market. We're very happy with the result -- as they say, price creates value. I doubt we will repeat with ST2 though. Thanks for the feedback, as always!
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Post by CdrPlatypus on May 14, 2016 11:50:36 GMT -5
I like the elite model, but I also like the possibilities of an IAP model allowing for further development of a game over time. Such as new characters, maybe more maps/ campaigns. fallen , Cory Trese I am interested in what you have seen the best business results from. After all mainly in want you to be successful so you can keep creating these great games. |
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Post by Brutus Aurelius on May 14, 2016 13:03:19 GMT -5
fallen Wow! How do you narrow it down to a single solution?  The size of the game should have some impact on the cost:  If you had waited to release a finished version of HoS it still wouldn't be available for purchase.  I think the "Free try before you buy" is not a good strategy.  Even Bigfish games only lets you do that for 1 hour and they sell a ton of games.  First impressions have a big impact on reviews.  A limited free version leads to inaccurate game reviews. You will see allot of reviews on Bigfish written after a one hour trial that are negative, then later great reviews from people who purchased and played the full version.  The temptation to produce smaller finished games might cramp your style when you start creating Legends of Steel. IAPs:  I've never felt ripped off.  Your IAPs have added great value for a small price.  In HoS the 4 new characters are worth every penny.  Boost-in is a stroke of genius!  Especially as HoS comes to a close, I would get migraines, and nose bleeds having to start from scratch then work my way up to level 64. ST-2 One Price gets all content in perpetuity:  In my opinion this is a terrible mistake. ST-2 is going to be with you for years after release.  The universe is expanding not contracting.  Releasing it on Steam first is wonderful.  I think, You must develop DLC content on Steam.  DLC is the standard for releasing new optional content, and accepted by the Steam community.  For tablet/mobile versions one idea that might work:  After a large amount of optional content has amassed offer a "Collector's Addition" of the game that includes not only new game features but artwork, music, professionally formatted game manual, or even throw in a copy of the ST comic book.  The Collector's Addition should be more expensive than the regular version.  If sales go through the roof you may decide someday to add Multi-player are you still willing to charge the same price?  I sure wouldn't. Track Record:  Awesome games!  I'ts almost like you feel guilty charging more for creating large expansions to existing games, what are you crazy?  Like En1gma I have played 2 Trese Bros games heavily but own all of them and all IAP content.  Someday I'm going to get around to playing them all.  I have never done that with any other developer's games.  Where the heck else am I going to get this quality at these prices?  Do you realize that some Atari-800 game cartridges produced in the 70's cost more than what you charge for a 21st century game?  Geez what am I going to do with you two!  My Vote: #2 Elite +IAP with game unlocks as an optional IAP (#4).  P.S.  These guys put the games on sale all the time, so that should offset some cost concerns. Honestly, Balgir hit it on the head here. Part of what drew me to try Star Traders was the fact that I could try the free version before I committed. After an hour I decided to buy it. Free +Elite unlock males the most sense to me |
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Post by fallen on May 14, 2016 13:32:44 GMT -5
fallen , Cory Trese I am interested in what you have seen the best business results from. After all mainly in want you to be successful so you can keep creating these great games. Without question, the All-in model of Templar Battleforce. But, that's pretty unfair, considering that it is our best, most polished, and first finished game ever  In all of these cases, it is very difficult to separate the game from the pricing model. Has Heroes success been based on its pricing scheme or the game? Or a mix of both? Or a million other factors. As mentioned a bit above in the thread, we will be launching a limited Battleforce demo on mobile eventually. I suspect we'd do that eventually with any all-in game, as it gives us another round of attention / promotion from the markets, press, social media. |
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Post by ntsheep on May 14, 2016 22:56:35 GMT -5
One of the things I liked about ST was that it used the old demo\freeware\shareware models. You got a game with half of the content that you could try and then a one time price to fully unlock it. There were no ads and no ungodly permissions. That was very important to me in the beginning. ST would later get a few one time IAP's that were nice but not needed to play the game or enjoy it. As an old gamer I love demos. Being able to play a little bit of something to see if I'll like it and then buy it is great for me. A Free\Elite model is good. One time IAP's for bonus content that add flavor to the game but isn't needed is also a nice thing.
BF has been an interesting ride for me. It was the first time I had been part of testing something new before it came out. The model of it being a full game from start was ok. I think though as time goes on, excluding game breaking bugs, adding extra stuff to it will be too much of a hassle for the TB's. Without funds coming in, there may come a time that they'll have to add an IAP for new content. There's been so much great new things added to it since it came out last year it's hard to believe it's the same game!
How things go in the future will be up to the TB's, but I'm sure I'll be a loyal TB customer because I have yet to be disappointed. Treating your fans and customers like close friends and family is the best business model and the TB's have proven that they are masters of that one.
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Post by fallen on May 15, 2016 0:39:11 GMT -5
How things go in the future will be up to the TB's, but I'm sure I'll be a loyal TB customer because I have yet to be disappointed. Treating your fans and customers like close friends and family is the best business model and the TB's have proven that they are masters of that one. Thanks, your two posts on the different polls made my night. |
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berl
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Post by berl on May 15, 2016 11:49:48 GMT -5
Voted for one purchase for everything. Either way, I'll still be buying most of your games. Having a blast with Cyber Knights and Star Traders. Also playing Heroes of Steel. When I get the extra loot definitely getting battleforce and Star Traders 2 when it comes out that is.
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Post by fallen on May 15, 2016 11:54:39 GMT -5
berl - welcome to the forum, thanks for your support, and thanks for casting a vote. The all-in model of BF just feels more comfortable and predictable to you?
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berl
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Post by berl on May 15, 2016 12:11:49 GMT -5
Thank you. And thanks for best mobile gaming experiences I can find. Yeah I like the idea that all the features are there in one shot. At the same time. I'd say go for what makes you guys the most money to keep up with the updates and bug fixing.
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Post by fallen on May 15, 2016 12:36:16 GMT -5
Thank you. And thanks for best mobile gaming experiences I can find. Yeah I like the idea that all the features are there in one shot. At the same time. I'd say go for what makes you guys the most money to keep up with the updates and bug fixing. The advantage of the all-in model is that you get all the content, no options. You have to pay for it, but you get it all. If the content is offered optionally as after-purchase IAPs, the rate of conversion is low -- so, while it might look like we are "adding more value" to the game with after-purchase IAPs, you could say that we actually losing 80% - 90% of their value by making them optional. Thanks for humoring my poll and ramblings I personally like the security of the "never DLC/IAP" approach. When we've released IAPs to any game after launch, we receive irate email, sometimes hate mail and often take it on the chin in the game press. When we announced our "never DLC/IAP" approach for Battleforce, I received email saying how great that was. It felt very different |
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Post by CdrPlatypus on May 15, 2016 16:03:32 GMT -5
fallen would you consider an initial all in model, but be open to releasing an expansion later? Like to PC model of the late 90's - early 00's ? Where an expansion was like %50% + the size of the original game? Or would you rather release a full follow up? What works better for your income stream and dev cycle?
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Post by fallen on May 15, 2016 16:09:41 GMT -5
fallen would you consider an initial all in model, but be open to releasing an expansion later? Like to PC model of the late 90's - early 00's ? Where an expansion was like %50% + the size of the original game? Or would you rather release a full follow up? What works better for your income stream and dev cycle? I'd consider us experimental with the pricing models. We've bounced around and tried a bunch of different models now. Yeah, we might try that. ST2 is going to be a very interesting beast to figure out how to price it for Steam / mobile. We wouldn't want to do a follow-up unless it was really a full new game, so you'd need the 100% effort and not 50% for a new title. IAPs take months to build, but they aren't full new experiences, which is why we've used them in some games past. |
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Post by John Robinson on May 15, 2016 17:15:59 GMT -5
 Message brought to you by the Council of Trese Brothers Zealots and does not necessarily reflect the views of fallen or Cory Trese  |
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Post by xdesperado on May 15, 2016 17:19:19 GMT -5
This^^^ Gave an exalt, wish I didn't have to wait or I'd give you a dozen more! |
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In all of these cases, it is very difficult to separate the game from the pricing model. Has Heroes success been based on its pricing scheme or the game? Or a mix of both? Or a million other factors.
