2x x2 damage due to lowered resists... Does it equal x3 or x

[BrownKnight]

(Copied from steam's discussion page, as I figure the answer may help players here too!)

If you lower both resistance, and an elemental resist of a foe to negatives, how does that effect the final damage you do?

For example:

you lower a foe's fire resistance and resistance (both) to negative 10. [actually negative 20, but becomes (-20/2)+(d-20/2), thus equalling -10 for the purposes of this example.] Then you hit them for 10 fire damage (ignoring physical damage for this example.)

is the final damage:

a) 30 (10+10+10)

or

b) 40 (10x2x2)

or

c) Something else entirely.

Thank you for the answer, This will help me decide how far to level a certian paladin's  -resistance curses.

-Brownknight.

[anrdaemon]

If you ask about JUST fire damage (such as elemental damage effects on weapon), then only resistances are applicable. (If we're talking the point, where all other resolutions have already happened, such as to hit or avoidance rolls.)
But real attack would consists of two parts.
Bottom (minimum damage) part is rolled as physical attack and affected by -armor curses.
Top (the rolled +damage part) is considered magical and will be affected by -resists.
So, probably (c) it is

[BrownKnight]

Jun 17, 2016 20:43:54 GMT -5 anrdaemon said:

If you ask about JUST fire damage (such as elemental damage effects on weapon), then only resistances are applicable. (If we're talking the point, where all other resolutions have already happened, such as to hit or avoidance rolls.)
But real attack would consists of two parts.
Bottom (minimum damage) part is rolled as physical attack and affected by -armor curses.
Top (the rolled +damage part) is considered magical and will be affected by -resists.
So, probably (c) it is

Thank you for the reply!

I'm aware of the combat system, and that the base damage is physical for any attack. I'm only looking at the elemental damage here, as that is all I'm unsure about. Physical damage is soaked via toughness and armor, whereas magic damage is soaked by resistance (which is based off of willpower) and specific elemental resistance (fire resist, ice resist, and resist all are 3 examples of this)

Therefore magic damage is soaked by 2 stats, and what I'm asking is how the damage is multiplied when BOTH are negative.

 You could ask the same question about physical damage too... if a foe had negative toughness AND negative armor, how would the physical damage be multiplied? This however, I believe is impossible, because as far as I have seen, no curses lower toughness, whereas the paladin DOES have a curse that lowers both resistance, and resist all.  (for the sake of clarity, they really should have named the willpower derived one something other than resistance...  resilience maybe?  would help to reduce confusion on the topic)  

Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.  I should have specified that I'm well aware of how the combat system works, other than this tiny detail which is still unclear to me.

-BrownKnight

[matrim]

Based on my experience with the game it is not multiplied. -res like -armor allows you to do over your max damage (although I am almost certain you need to do at least 1 damage of an elemental type to apply. So you would not do All magic damage on a -res mob with a purely physical attack) so 10 fire damage would be added to the 10 original fire damage. The - fire res would double the FIRST 10 damage applied so scenario A holds true. The (massive) advantage of -res in elemental damage builds is it guarantees a number greater than 1. Elemental damage is always rolled as a 1 minimum to X max so there is always the danger of bottoming out a roll. -res negates this somewhat allowing you to more consistently take advantage of the entire aspect of -All resist (or whatever specific res you are debuffing). So if one rolled a 2 on their fire damage roll against a mob with -5 res, the fire damage would increase to 7 and then up to 7 damage would be doubled by All resist. Seems small but when doing 5 types of damage it makes for some seriously big numbers (I consistently do 250-300 damage with a 1 ap Kincaid relic, crits are 400-500)

[matrim]

Also of note with toughness on mobs. I am still pretty sure they don't have it and their soak is entirely represented through armor. I am basing this on a boosted in test I ran against the ratkin in the store rooms. I know for a fact that I did my max damage + their - armor (so 1 ap 21-24 damage blade on a -9 armor ratkin warrior did 33 damage, I had no other gear on so there would be no +damage modifiers in there, also a basic attack). Might be better to test on a beetle or giant rat but getting them to 0 armor is nigh impossible after level 12 and the narrow damage range on that blade makes boosted in tests so ideal. One would imagine that a level 23 ratkin warrior would have at least 1 toughness though if that were a thing.

[fallen]

Jun 18, 2016 2:39:06 GMT -5 BrownKnight said:

Therefore magic damage is soaked by 2 stats, and what I'm asking is how the damage is multiplied when BOTH are negative.
 You could ask the same question about physical damage too... if a foe had negative toughness AND negative armor, how would the physical damage be multiplied? This

Better answer (also posted to Steam!)

@brownknight - I am going to recast the example with clear numbers for the attack and enemy.

Your attack causes 10 Fire Dmg.

The enemy has 8 Resistance and 0 Fire Res.

You curse your enemy with -20 Res and -12 Fire Res (this is level 9 Holy Strickening).

The enemy now has -12 Res and -12 Fire Res.

You attack. For simplicity sake, let's say your roll 10 Damage on your Fire Dmg dice.

Resistance is soaked first. With -12 Res, half of a target's Res is applied directly against the Damage, so -6 is applied. That increases your Damage to 16 so far. The other half of a target's Res is rolled as a dice, but it is -6D dice which = 0. No damage increase.

Fire Res is soaked second. With specific negative Res (-Fire Res) you get 100% of the negative value as Damage. So, with - 12 Fire Res and 10 Fire Damage, you can only get double Damage that you cause, so you get an extra +10 Dmg. If you had done 16 Fire Damage, you'd only get to double 12 because your -12 Fire Res (16+12=28) -- this would be over-damaging the -Fire Res.

So, in total you do original 10 Fire Damage + 6 Damage (from -Res) + 10 Damage (from -Fire Res) and land 26 Fire Dmg.

[BrownKnight]

Thank you for such a clear and detailed answer! As it turns out, it was c), as one will modify the other! This answers my question perfectly!

also thank you to anrdaemon and matrim for the time and effort you guys took to post. You guys rock!

May Death always be in your wake, and not in front of you,
-BrownKnight

[fallen]

Jun 18, 2016 9:54:05 GMT -5 BrownKnight said:

May Death always be in your wake, and not in front of you,

I like that quote!

Glad we could answer