High difficulty specialist help please?

[En1gma]

OW is indeed king... So many lives saved and missions completed, simply because of OW.

Another thing you might consider, capthawk, is combining your Berserks with a Crippling Fire Sniper using a Bio weapon. The thought behind this is two-fold: Lowering MP makes it more difficult for enemies to close (obviously), but this makes it easier for the Berserk to use their MP on closing range on their terms, not letting the enemy get full movement. The other point to this is that the residual damage will help to ensure that the Berserk gets one shot kills. Spending two whole attacks on any trash enemy is painful, so avoid it

When this is paired with OW, or even better, Promethium and OW, there isn't much aside from Narvs, Goliaths, Carapaces, and Liches who are going to make it through your onslaught.

[En1gma]

Another thing I would suggest is planning your entire squad before you even begin the game. Pick one specialist to begin with, and get them up to speed. Once they are good to go, then consider your next choice. From your OP it sounded like you were rushing for 3 specialists (Nept/Berserk/Pal IIRC), which would stretch your resources thin and leave them with inferior gear/Talents.

My Hydra game I knew from the get-go that for a 6 man deployment I would be using 2 Hydra, 2 Soldiers, and either an Engineer or a Scout. This made the basis of my team solid, allowed me to go deep into their respective trees, and solidified their place on the team. Plan ahead and consider your picks for a 9 man deploy, and even a 12, if you plan on having enough RP to go around.

If I were to make a Berserk centered game, I would plan for 2 Berserk, Ranged Captain, Bio-Scout, OW Long range buffing Soldier, and an Engineer (6 man).
--9 man I would go Pally, Engineer, and a second Soldier. Second Engineer for the OW Turrets, and spec them for Power Field and Heat Sink to get the mechs back into livable Heat levels. Pally is to recover Health and buff with Battlefield Enhancers and group defense buffs. Soldier for the OW and area coverage.
--12 man I would take another bio-Scout, a second Soldier possibly specced for short range obliteration and grenades, and another Berserk. Scout helps cover and slow the flanks, Soldier to fully lock down approaches and support the push, third Berserk takes control of the push and bears the brunt of the final assaults/objective runs.

[capthawk]

En1gma Brutus Aurelius

Thanks for the all the advice!

OW is indeed the way to go!

I didn't mean it to sound like I'm trying to rush specialists out. I too am a believer in developing what you have, then unlocking the next desired class.

It's more in asking how to get specialists meaningful early deployments.

As to Fortitude, since we have a side discussion going, I use gear to add hit points. Ballast Pilot on Captain and Scouts gives +32 hp. That's alot of attr/skill points I can put elsewhere. I use the +15hp, +15 heat on my Soldiers. I'll also go after Relics for hp. Really, Engineer is the only class I add any Fortitude to, as getting to Kinetic Refine- X takes points i need elsewhere.
En1gma our thinking on Willpower in regard to maintaining hp is similar.
Other than that I keep my troops out of spots where they'd be getting hit that much, and keep my formations designed to protect lower hp. In the case a horde of Xeno I can't hold back, I account for the most powerful (priority taget,crippling, napalm, OW, etc. , letting skitterings through to meet my blade.
I'll admit my strategy calls for a Paladin to be ready to deploy, as we all know there's the dread fog of war and you can't always account for everything. Sometimes I end up with a low hp Knight, but by protecting and managing the wounded Knight's heat I can get him through.
I beat Nightmare using this strategy, with only a basic level Engineer lost, and that to a Narvidian from the fog.
The advantage to how I spec: High willpower means run all day(almost) even at Ironman. Use weapons and gear to hit harder and add hit points, countering the high points spent in Willpower on the attribute side, and leaving some points to go into core attributes. That still leaves serious offense you can add to those top tier weapons by way of skills and talents.

So, my specialists end up coming on like this:
Hydra: I do FLance first, and start training him up for Galantia and Tundeer.
Paladin: I start trying to sneak him on late from Tundeer going forward levels.
Neptune/Berserk: Open Neptune as Soldiers clamor for better Weapon Mods. Berserk is up in the air. On my successful Nightmare I didn't open them until way late, and they never played a key role.
This iron man run I'm on I'm taking some of the advice here and I'm going to try using them earlier.

As to planning my squad before I start I really try to, hopefully evidenced by the above.

Lol, maybe I'm just too scared, and scarred, by past Nightmare and iron man failures at Extermination Protocol. My best lineup to beat that level, going back to experiments at Brutal, is two Soldiers, Engineer, Scout alongside Captain and Nyra. IMO this lineup has the most chances to level up, and thus be your deadliest, as it contains all the Knights you have had from tutorial levels on.
Yes, I play from tutorial on, every squad. Every extra RP and RP I can milk out, I say!

[fallen]

capthawk - Ironman is hard because of the lack of ability to retry and see if you can get it right again. Very difficult ground for training on something that isn't working. A quick recipe for frustration. Perhaps drop a level or two in difficulty to give these theories a shot, in a place where it is easier to test and test again if something goes wrong.

[capthawk]

Aug 9, 2016 21:11:05 GMT -5 fallen said:

I can work on some videos showing Airlock and Extermination.

You rock!

I want to add, I had a blast last night doing some respecs on my Squad, based on your advice. I did keep my high Willpower model, but I robbed points from quickness and evasion to pump into core offense sets.
Wow, a few points made a HUGE difference! I rocked Extermination by Fire like never
before, 10/22 turn goal smashed! The only danger I was in was near the end as my Captain secured a secondary at the cost of a couple Goliath swipes. Ty, Minor Meditech!
We proceeded to smash levels, and got by Extermination Protocol with flying colors (17/24 turn goal).
Cool note: don't know if I can repeat this, but I will sure try. I managed to ding the Litch up enough that I took out the last Litch Tower AND the Litch with one burst fire to end the level! It was so cool, I had Litch pinned between a turret I had resupplied my Engineer with and my top Soldier, as it worked out we headed right for our final tower and killed him twice to be able to pin him on the bridge.Kept damaging him without killing with potshots from my Engineer as we worked the turret down. Litch foolishly moved back through turret fire to stand next to tower on final turn. Soldier one, grenade, Soldier two, grenade; hitting both tier and Litch. Checked Litch: 11hp. Checked tower: 38 hp. Burst fire, they both popped!

[capthawk]

Aug 10, 2016 16:08:55 GMT -5 fallen said:

capthawk - Ironman is hard because of the lack of ability to retry and see if you can get it right again. Very difficult ground for training on something that isn't working. A quick recipe for frustration. Perhaps drop a level or two in difficulty to give these theories a shot, in a place where it is easier to test and test again if something goes wrong.

I so agree! I'm actually finding the success I am from dropping back to Brutal, then running Nightmare from what I (re-) learned. I have a Brutal super squad that has run the campign a few times over, and it spoiled me for early game strategy!
Since I beat Nightmare I'm trying to beat Ironman with the same basic model.

My questions on specialists are really more for future play through. That being said, I do have Berserk unlocked and stocked as we head on from Protocol, with optimism about how to use him effectively.

That's thanks to you and En1gma 😊

[ntsheep]

Have you tried reading the guide I have posted here or on Steam. Ideally you'll want to wait longer for getting any Specialists until later in the game when you have more of their Req Tree unlocked. Hydras, Neptunes, and Paladins don't really become power houses until you can start getting their best weapons, armor, and stats maxed out when playing higher difficulty levels like Nightmare or Ironman.

[capthawk]

ntsheep - if you mean the awesome Game Guide you wrote, yes I have.
I don't remember if I posted on it though, and if not my bad because it helped me a ton with my first squads.
I agree with you about waiting on specialists until you can unlock them with points to add to their tree!
My best success so far is focusing on core troop development first and foremost.
I just like "beating the system" if I can lol.

[fallen]

capthawk - glad to hear that things are working better for you. I think part of the fact that the avenue to victory shrinks is that defensive fighting is less viable. The precision required starts to, as En1gma said, require that you play such that you don't get hit. If you can play at that level of precision, then you don't need Evasion and Quickness in the early game.

[CdrPlatypus]

capthawk I have beaten airlock and extermination protocol on ironman with a Neptune, a hydra, and a paladin (on seperate play throughs) using a specialist in the early game on high difficulties is possible it just requires a good understanding of said specialist.

For instance with a Neptune you move then shoot. Use to cover an entire lane with over watch.

Palidan pairs great with a melee captain to make a two man wrecking ball

Hydras are all about area denial. Use napalm charge to stop span points on the airlock level instead of bothering to close locks behind you

All that said if you're desired focus is high score speed runs to challenge the ironman ladder your mvps early on are stealth scouts and rallying cry solders. Melee stealth scouts can rush extermination protocol by running behind do enemy lines and punching 2 of the towers to death and then the rest of the squad hits the last tower

Inn short it comes down to understanding the mission and the synergy of your team. The synergy of your squad is more important than any one Templar in it

[capthawk]

CdrPlatypus Thanks for the advice. Really good point on Squad synergy!

I'm glad you picked Neptune for your example as it's a good case of where I struggle. Simply, on a level like Airlock or Protocol with a Neptune I run into heat lock. I'm not sure you read all this thread, but to be clear I run my Squad as fast as possible. How do you deal with heat lock?

Maybe the better question overall is how do I better balance deployments? Ideally, I'd like at least one of every class above basic level, to a point I can trust each respective Knight with varying missions. I know that's unrealistic in the early game, this is more an as I move through the campaign question.

[En1gma]

For Airlock, maybe try not to use Full Auto. 15 Heat is hard to overcome even when you aren't marching fill steam ahead. Try using them as just an OW machine, and don't even touch FA unless someone is going to die.

Even better, don't bother deploying one on that level at all. IMO they're better served as area denial than they are for hit and run levels. Better for this one would be a Hydra, because they can keep up, and drop Napalm to cover the rear.

[fallen]

Aug 14, 2016 11:19:59 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Even better, don't bother deploying one on that level at all. IMO they're better served as area denial than they are for hit and run levels. Better for this one would be a Hydra, because they can keep up, and drop Napalm to cover the rear.

A Neptune is killer in this level. Just keep them in the center column, marching straight south. They can do wonders with OW to block incoming aliens, or to cover a Scout or Captain's retreat from a side passage and a switch.

[En1gma]

Still not a fan-- enemies at that level are easy enough to kill with a regular Soldier, which can boost MP and damage with Rallying. I would much rather cover the retreat with Hydras, as you could effectively skip closing a door or two and just let the Promethium do the job for me. (Hail Hydra!!)

Just goes to show how many ways there are to play the game

[fallen]

Aug 14, 2016 13:31:42 GMT -5 En1gma said:

Still not a fan-- enemies at that level are easy enough to kill with a regular Soldier, which can boost MP and damage with Rallying. I would much rather cover the retreat with Hydras, as you could effectively skip closing a door or two and just let the Promethium do the job for me. (Hail Hydra!!)

Just goes to show how many ways there are to play the game

Definitely agreed. Soldiers also do amazingly well. Lol, my argument probably sums up to -- "any of the specialists can kick butt on this level."

If you want to take the Neptune, there are great ways to use them.