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Post by resistor on Sept 1, 2016 13:40:37 GMT -5
Both Syndicates and Clans are highly authoritarian and undemocratic. Why isn't there a faction more similar to today's democratic* governments, like the USA or most of Europe? I can think of five possibilities for this:
1) They exist, but their hive ships did not happen to arrive in the quadrant we know. If this is true they might appear in ST2.
2) It is a sort of political comment by the TBs. They possibly are trying to tell us all governments, given enough time, eventually devolve into authoritarian regimes. Or maybe they are trying to tell us that democratic governments are extremely rare in history, and authoritarian governments are the norm.
3) They were all destroyed by the Planetary Guild, so that they could order puppet faction leaders to do whatever they wanted without worrying about the local will of the people.
4) They were all destroyed by the Templars, so that they could order puppet faction leaders to do whatever they wanted without worrying about the local will of the people.
5) No particular lore reason, but Democratic governments tend to be more peaceful, and Cory couldn't fit that in very well with the political conflicts system.
So what do you think? Do you think one of these is a good explanation, or do you have your own theory?
*Technically they're representative Republics and not true Democracies, but everyone calls them Democracies for some reason.
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Post by fallen on Sept 1, 2016 13:42:52 GMT -5
Because, the history of the Star Traders and the great Edicts of Shalun.
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Post by resistor on Sept 1, 2016 13:53:53 GMT -5
Because, the history of the Star Traders and the great Edicts of Shalun. That's really vague. It does seem to confirm that Shalun (and by extension, the Templars) are at least somewhat responsible for this though. That raises the question: did Shalun directly outlaw democratic forms of government, or did his edicts unintentionally set forth a chain of events that destroyed any democracies? |
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capthawk
Exemplar
[ * ]
Living and loving ST elite-verse!
Posts: 408 
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Post by capthawk on Sept 1, 2016 14:02:42 GMT -5
Because, the history of the Star Traders and the great Edicts of Shalun. ...reasons... |
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Post by fallen on Sept 1, 2016 15:25:25 GMT -5
Because, the history of the Star Traders and the great Edicts of Shalun. That's really vague. It does seem to confirm that Shalun (and by extension, the Templars) are at least somewhat responsible for this though. That raises the question: did Shalun directly outlaw democratic forms of government, or did his edicts unintentionally set forth a chain of events that destroyed any democracies? Shalun put in place a set of laws and edicts to ensure that the Star Trader Factions could unite, fight the Guild, and then co-exist without devolving into all-out war for power and influence, not to mention the feuds. There were no democratic governments at this time, perhaps there were some in the past. As you mentioned, you're hard pressed to find a true democracies now either. Princes and representatives of the Factions are elected to the Senate by princes and representatives within each Faction. Perhaps you'd be better suited looking in the dust balls and the near-dead planet scraps that are left over for the Independents in your democratic yearnings.  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 1, 2016 16:07:11 GMT -5
Yes -- the Independents are intended to represent populations that preferred independent democratic planetary governments.
The Faction Accords, the organizing documents and legal structures that form the backbone of the Star Trader's society dictate two unique governmental organizations -- both of which contain elements of representative governments.
Faced with the possibility of extinction and slavery the Star Traders sacrificed much to survive -- both the Guild Wars and the long isolation of the Colony Hives.
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Post by Officer Genious on Sept 1, 2016 21:49:42 GMT -5
That's really vague. It does seem to confirm that Shalun (and by extension, the Templars) are at least somewhat responsible for this though. That raises the question: did Shalun directly outlaw democratic forms of government, or did his edicts unintentionally set forth a chain of events that destroyed any democracies? Shalun put in place a set of laws and edicts to ensure that the Star Trader Factions could unite, fight the Guild, and then co-exist without devolving into all-out war for power and influence, not to mention the feuds. There were no democratic governments at this time, perhaps there were some in the past. As you mentioned, you're hard pressed to find a true democracies now either. Princes and representatives of the Factions are elected to the Senate by princes and representatives within each Faction. Perhaps you'd be better suited looking in the dust balls and the near-dead planet scraps that are left over for the Independents in your democratic yearnings. So the leaders of the factions are voted in by the Senate, who are in turn elected by minor princes and representatives? Are the lower princes and representatives from the individual systems or is that an even lower political court? |
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Post by fallen on Sept 1, 2016 22:20:26 GMT -5
ST 2 Lore book yeah!
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Post by fallen on Sept 1, 2016 22:21:34 GMT -5
So the leaders of the factions are voted in by the Senate, who are in turn elected by minor princes and representatives? Are the lower princes and representatives from the individual systems or is that an even lower political court? No sorry. The leaders of the Factions elect Senators from among their ranks. Each Faction sends Senators to the Senate. |
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Post by resistor on Sept 1, 2016 22:27:11 GMT -5
Thanks for answers! Okay, well there is one thing that still doesn't make sense...
Why does the De Valtos description say they control the sole elected position in the Quadrant, if some senators and Indy leaders are elected?
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Post by Cory Trese on Sept 1, 2016 22:37:19 GMT -5
Thanks for answers! Okay, well there is one thing that still doesn't make sense... Why does the De Valtos description say they control the sole elected position in the Quadrant, if some senators and Indy leaders are elected? Why do De Valtos say they're the richest Faction in the world when Javat has more Minerals? |
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Post by Zer0Winds on Sept 1, 2016 22:55:25 GMT -5
Because De Valtos keep money. They're like the perfect merchants, they don't spend money, they invest it. Okay not really, they buy whatever they want, when they want, but Javat keeps upgrading their operations. They spend money on machinery, contraptions, refineries. The only thing they don't pay for is diggers. Because, like dwarves, they live to dig, and worship the stone. Unlike dwarves, they don't worship beards and axes. Or do they?
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Post by resistor on Sept 1, 2016 23:03:15 GMT -5
Thanks for answers! Okay, well there is one thing that still doesn't make sense... Why does the De Valtos description say they control the sole elected position in the Quadrant, if some senators and Indy leaders are elected? Why do De Valtos say they're the richest Faction in the world when Javat has more Minerals? Minerals are only as good as your access to them. They're not credits in the bank until you dig them up. De Valtos, on the other hand, specializes in trade, and their ability to manipulate existing economies. Hmm... "manipulate" Oh, of course! "Do they really expect us to believe the Senate elections are real? They are bought and sold like so much water-fuel, everyone knows it!" |
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Post by starfixer on Sept 2, 2016 3:37:19 GMT -5
Yes -- the Independents are intended to represent populations that preferred independent democratic planetary governments. The Faction Accords, the organizing documents and legal structures that form the backbone of the Star Trader's society dictate two unique governmental organizations -- both of which contain elements of representative governments. Faced with the possibility of extinction and slavery the Star Traders sacrificed much to survive -- both the Guild Wars and the long isolation of the Colony Hives. Representative? Those elections are rigged, everyone knows! Bought and sold like so much water-fuel. |
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Post by Officer Genious on Sept 2, 2016 10:11:16 GMT -5
So the leaders of the factions are voted in by the Senate, who are in turn elected by minor princes and representatives? Are the lower princes and representatives from the individual systems or is that an even lower political court? No sorry. The leaders of the Factions elect Senators from among their ranks. Each Faction sends Senators to the Senate. So how are the leaders of individual systems elected then? Just curious. |
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