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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 10, 2016 9:06:38 GMT -5
Hello veterans of Steel, So this is my first game with the newly purchased alternative heroes, and I was wondering if anyone could chip in with any feedback/potential problems with this plan. For reference, my party is now level 5 and I'm playing on Hard. Kincaid:Dex-focused, using dual-wielded LB, possibly switching to add throwing knives if it doesn't hurt his damage too much. Still deciding which attack talent to go for, leaning towards crippling strikes for eventual AOE and -damage. Defensively speaking, Ks objective is to dodge everything that comes his way using a combination of sure parry and a bit of cunning footwork. LBTB will be added for the +MP in a limited amount. Vincent is to be used to croud control enemy archers with frigid air and supply -AP with flash freeze. I will probably add in thundering blades to add much needed damage to this party. His melee is useful offensively at present but I'm concern his defence won't be up to scratch later on. He is using a 1H sword. I also want to use a ES+LS combo, but want to avoid spreading him too thin, so that may end up being dropped. Fyona will be packing the biggest 2H hammer I can find, and using SoC to enhance the dodge/parry of K and Selen. Strickening will maximise damage from TB and Vincent's other attacks. Naturally, she will also have some healing powers as well, as her secondary role. Selen is planned to be as dodgy as possible, using QsD when unlocked to help with this. Using Pinning shot for the -AP and -armour (eventually), and probably frenzied blows. Her damage at present is terribad with only a single LB, and no aimed shot means bow damage sucks too. Hopefully I'll find some better light blades along the way to make her competitive. Vincent's +lightening should help with this too. Overall my group is severely missing choking ash, as Selen struggles to do damage to giant rats, Fyona has yet to find a 2H hammer and unlock AOE strickening; and Vincent's elemental damage is all being soaked. Any and all suggestions and feedback are welcome
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 10, 2016 9:32:09 GMT -5
Had another look at talents, realised that it's Selen's punishing blades that has -armour rather than pinning shot.
With that in mind, a melee-only Selen with dual light blades is more appealing. The potential issue i am seeing with that is a severe lack of long ranged firepower and also the intense competition for light blades!
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Sept 10, 2016 10:28:35 GMT -5
Something to note is that the only easy access to -ap besides Vincent for FF is PS on Selen. Deathkin and the slew of Giant rats and not to mention Shamen are far more deadly if you let them run around with 2 AP all of act 1. As someone who has played almost the exact same comp and build very successfully I highly suggest that you at least run PS for episode 1 until Fyona gets access to Reckoning and then feel free to spec out. You should know though that it is Selen's only AE attack and it is HIGHLY effective in CoD against the clumping and summoning enemies there.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 10, 2016 11:28:18 GMT -5
^^ This. Pinning Shot is my favorite curse in the game next to Ash and Strickening. She ends up doing more damage overall because of the added targets, and the entire group deals more because of the great D/P curse. Dual curse Selen is one of the best long game characters, and even with only one dagger she can tank entire teams of enemies. I had her spawn a quad of Spider nests and realized that the group was about ten turns away. Instead of running, I had her Pinning Shot the nests and she was able to take three of them out before the others returned to help her. She wasn't touched a single time. Long story short, if you haven't run a ranged Selen build, you need to. I still refuse to believe that Cory Trese has never used a bow on her other to test for bugs. PS is just too good to pass up.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 10, 2016 11:47:51 GMT -5
The new crew is able to have SO MANY MORE combinations of talents and plans.
I did one similar to this where I maxed Lightning Spear and used just Pinning Shot for AP. Once Lightning Spear was maxed, I saved up for Reckoning with Fyona, Got Crippling Strikes to 6 (he had been going Footwork and CS in anticipation of this), and put a point into Flash Freeze. Within two levels, my entire team went from having only one AP spell to everyone having a way to do it and they just wrecked. You could of course put your third or fourth point into FF for Vincent, but they can lag behind on damage without Vincent nuking things, especially if you want a switch hitter Selen.
If Selen is having issues dealing damage with only one LB, go a point into Punishing, then see how that helps... One point is usually enough to get her back up to speed.
Another thing I've found is that if you go with Vincent, you will almost always need to find a way to replace Ash.
Vincent can do this by going pure damage via Energy Storm or Spear. He is also very useful if you go with ES and Thundering Blades.
Another way to increase group damage is by running a bit of elemental gear and using Strickening. Or go all in and build a group around the godly ES/TB/Strickening combo.
Selen does best with Vincent if she focuses on Elemental damage in conjunction with Pinning Shot (AoE spreads elemental damage around). The other way is to use Punishing Blades to focus group damage on smaller groups of enemies.
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 10, 2016 12:29:02 GMT -5
Getting to oskahold sorted the damage problem, Selen's output has at least doubled and Fyona went from 7(13)-23 to 37(53)-52 when switching to the 2H hammer. Thanks for your input guys, I'll be taking another look at PS in particular - especially when I grab some decent +elemental gear
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Post by wascalwywabbit on Sept 10, 2016 15:19:03 GMT -5
Vincent with sundering and speed makes a half decent off tank once he connects wither the sunder. Sundering is also one of the most pwerful melee AoE talents (maybe the most), especially with strickening. So, yes swords are perfectly viable for vinny. EotS is also underrated imo.
You can forgo PS if you're keeping FF lvled (and no respec), but just remember it's a huge acc boost as much or more than ap curse, plus AoE so... TB, FU and/or DS, and HS and CS to a lesser degree, can replace the lost team acc boost of PS, but her loss of AoE can always be felt. That being said... with enough +mp and dmg to get past armor or res to curse, PB is a super effective curse for everyone to maximize dmg with, and upto 7 1ap attacks (more with +ap items and some story events etc.) can spread it around with aplomb. In that case you just make sure your other members have AoE in her stead, not too hard.
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 11, 2016 1:34:43 GMT -5
The moment I got that final talent point to give PS -AP Selen switched entirely to ranged support for most of the battle The -d/-p was super helpful against those darned underdeep beetles, My current problem with making Vincent too swordy is that often I have everyone in a narrow corridor just sitting there with no room for manoeuvre. Sundering looks absolutely sweet though - especially with lowered res. Side note: using multiple LS after a strickening feels like clay pigeon shooting for some reason
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 12, 2016 16:50:40 GMT -5
So, I'm at the base of red hill dungeons , and overall very happy with how the team is doing. 17 deaths is more that'll I was hoping for, but I had some low/no-SP double and triple pulls that I was WAY too stubborn about. My other group is starting E3 on 177 deaths, so this group should pass under that bar Except, Vincent is seriously underperforming due to LS5 and my lack of anti-armour. I stopped levelling it to sort out the groups severe problem with archer/shaman fire and haven't touched it since. The damage is pitiful (~30ish) per enemy and the AOE isn't that huge. Even with strickening 5 results are meh at best. The large SP cost has generally resulted in Vincent cursing all ranged fire with FA3, maybe firing off a FF2 and then switching to using Storm Strike 1 or standing around as moral support, or using LS to clean up singular targets (also inefficient). Now he has reached level 15 and I've found my 20th moonstone, I'm planning to respec him into someone that brings more to the table. I definitely want to keep FA at 2-3, but it's his role apart from anti-ranged that has me stumped at the moment. Do I: Go all in on thundering blades and pair with energy storm? Hold out for elemental sundering after red hill? Pair with CS and mass strickening - maybe EotS as well Or max LS for the better templated range? As a side note, V is currently using a 2AP 1h sword. Seeing the relics posted in his talent table thread
has me wondering if a Dex-based LIght blades build might be superior.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 15, 2016 17:20:34 GMT -5
bookworm21Sorry, been busy lately For Vincent, in this group, I would just go with all in on Lightning Spear, Energy Storm, or Thundering Blades. -For selfish, but unstoppable offense, go Lightning Spear. You still get some synergy with Strickening, but the real payoff is watching entire groups fry. -If you want pure synergy, go all in on Energy Storm. It pairs perfectly with Strickening, and drops the bass once you get Sundering high enough. -If you want to increase group damage but not really raise Vincent's, go Thundering Blades. This is my least favorite of the three, as Vincent is best when he's dealing damage, IMO. My favorite option out of the three for this group would be the Energy Storm route. Respec him to ES 8 and dump the other points into either a curse or Charged Speed for mobility. Depending on how much elemental damage your group has, Thundering Blades may help them capitalize on ES's benefits if they don't have it in gear.
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Post by En1gma on Sept 15, 2016 17:28:44 GMT -5
Even if it means you drop FA for now, I would get his offense pumped up for the fights ahead. It's a long fight up that tower and personally I would rather put points into Charged Speed and offense to move in and neutralize the enemy archers and javlineers before they have the chance to start slinging death your way.
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Post by bookworm21 on Sept 16, 2016 5:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks for the extra help En1gma! At the moment I'm clearing the Krete spur (trading outpost side quest), having defeated Red Hill without too much bother. The baron himself was nasty, causing a few deaths before I could stick a -AP curse on him. The storerooms were not as bad as I remember - only 1 death from a deathkin immediately pulping selen after opening a recessed door... I Went for a very similar strategy overall, going mainly for energy storm, With a bit of thundering blades to increase group accuracy, As well as the elemental damage boost to maximise the effect of strickening. I also put two points in charged speed and kept the fridgid air, as I haven't found enough dodge gear yet to have the tougher E2 archers consistently miss. Flash Freeze didn't make the cut, as between PS, reckoning and CS6 there is plenty of -AP
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 19, 2016 13:07:20 GMT -5
So, I'm at the base of red hill dungeons , and overall very happy with how the team is doing. 17 deaths is more that'll I was hoping for, but I had some low/no-SP double and triple pulls that I was WAY too stubborn about. My other group is starting E3 on 177 deaths, so this group should pass under that bar Except, Vincent is seriously underperforming due to LS5 and my lack of anti-armour. I stopped levelling it to sort out the groups severe problem with archer/shaman fire and haven't touched it since. The damage is pitiful (~30ish) per enemy and the AOE isn't that huge. Even with strickening 5 results are meh at best. The large SP cost has generally resulted in Vincent cursing all ranged fire with FA3, maybe firing off a FF2 and then switching to using Storm Strike 1 or standing around as moral support, or using LS to clean up singular targets (also inefficient). Now he has reached level 15 and I've found my 20th moonstone, I'm planning to respec him into someone that brings more to the table. I definitely want to keep FA at 2-3, but it's his role apart from anti-ranged that has me stumped at the moment. Do I: Go all in on thundering blades and pair with energy storm? Hold out for elemental sundering after red hill? Pair with CS and mass strickening - maybe EotS as well Or max LS for the better templated range? As a side note, V is currently using a 2AP 1h sword. Seeing the relics posted in his talent table thread
has me wondering if a Dex-based LIght blades build might be superior. My God! Erection. I am talking about the spoiler photo!
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matrim
Star Hero
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Post by matrim on Dec 19, 2016 16:03:35 GMT -5
Yes, that sword is very cool. Unfortunately with strickening builds 1 AP blades are just so vastly superior that I end up benching this weapon the moment it appears in my inventory...
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Post by achilles73 on Dec 19, 2016 16:07:13 GMT -5
Yes, that sword is very cool. Unfortunately with strickening builds 1 AP blades are just so vastly superior that I end up benching this weapon the moment it appears in my inventory... Can you post stats for the other legendaries? Edit: Also, can Vincent even dual wield or use a shield? A 1H sword doesn't make sense on him unless he can do either?
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