Legality issues.

[xdesperado]

So have a bunch of fertiliser in my cargo hold.
Bought from Clan Zenrin planets (my faction) and I land on a Zenrin Farming zone.
11 Econ, 6 Starport, 9 Military, 7 Gov, 9 Spice, 9 Law, 7 Pop.
Have 2 levels of trade permits and get told it's illegal to sell the fertiliser.
Excuse me I'm a legally licensed trader of your Faction with extra trade permits who happens to have a hold full of manure your economy is desperate for and it's illegal? Someone has manure for brains and the farmers should be spreading them on their fields...

[Cory Trese]

Yeah, illegal to trade that there. Find another zone? We could remove legality from those resources, but that's reducing game depth for a minimal benefit.

New trade interface will help you see that you're buying goods with legal requirements.

[johndramey]

Yeah, that's caught me out a few times. One of the reasons why I stuck a legality explanation in my trading thread, haha.

I picture it like how Sudafed is treated in Hawaii. Sure, Sudafed is a good anti-histamine that helps people, but because it can be used to make meth it is treated like a controlled substance.

Fertilizer and Pesticides are probably similar.

That planet didn't want you dumping a huge amount of AnFo onto the market because, well by golly that's a big 'old bomb. Maybe they had some issues with eco-terrorism a while back?

Similarly, with the recent election of the green party, the government wants to "go organic." Pesticides aren't natural, maaaaaaaaaan.

[Cory Trese]

I mean, you guys have the trade goods list. I think for balance we need about this mix, based on the statistical analysis we ran.

I'm all for making some wiggles and manual trade offs. What could we swap fert/pest with that would make more sense?

When I looked at it, I thought exactly what johndramey thought ... agricultural supplies are often violitile chemicals and are also often regulated by local governments.

[johndramey]

I didn't mean to come off as not agreeing with you, I agree with the choice. It is totally possible that a government would ban that kind of stuff even though it makes no sense to us. Hawaii recently passed legislation making GMO papayas illegal in the islands even though over 90% of the papayas grown in Hawaii are GMO and a vast, vast majority of farmers were outspokenly opposed to the legislation. Governments do weird stuff all the time.

Is it a huge pain in the ass for me as a trader? Sure, but them's the breaks man.

[Cory Trese]

I was just saying it isn't set in stone and I'm open to negotiating

But that frustrating "what are these stupid backwards gravs doing now?" feeling is supposed to be part of Star Traders.

Your Captain is supposed to long for a return to the stars, where he or she rules supreme

[Officer Genious]

Negotiating? Ima call my Face cyberknight now... See if we can't get this game released NOW.

[johndramey]

Exactly. I personally find those planets to be fun little gems. In my current game I have a high population/economy/starport Javat population planet with a prince on it that I basically love. Why? It has 0 law! I picture it as the wild west of Clan Javat. I finish every mission by bringing in a huge load of refined spice. Before I found this planet, my hard merchant was scraping an existence with basically no surplus in cash. Now, sitting on almost $100k of filthy drug money.

Those low/high law planets are kind of like chunks of spice in a soup. Sometimes you get a good spice (like a hot pepper, yum!), sometimes you get a bad spice (hunk of salt, ewwww!), but you always remember them!

[xdesperado]

Certain basic staples, especially if they are staples in fostering the local economy should either be exempted or regulated in some other manner than simply declairing them illegal.
Go to a Farming Zone and worst they say you need a certain level faction trade permit to sell Fertiliser and Pesticides...they have to get those things in if they want to continue having stuff to export, they are vital to the economy.
Similar vein of reasoning for raw ores going to Refinery zones or basic processed resources going to industrial Zones.
Now Population Zones that have no real export can declair anything illegal to trade, no problem, they are strictly consumer economies and if they want everyone wearing local manufactored grass skirts and banana leaves for clothes that's legitimate.

[ntsheep]

Feb 14, 2017 21:44:07 GMT -5 Officer Genious said:

Negotiating? Ima call my Face cyberknight now... See if we can't get this game released NOW.

And if that dosen't work, we'll send in Lonewolf

[Cory Trese]

Not sure that's what we want Trade Permits to be for. They shouldn't be an easy-auto on all goods, you still want the merchant to have challenges.

Legality is an often requested feature for ST RPG. People want more restricted, complex trading.

[johndramey]

Feb 14, 2017 21:58:40 GMT -5 xdesperado said:

Certain basic staples, especially if they are staples in fostering the local economy should either be exempted or regulated in some other manner than simply declairing them illegal.
Go to a Farming Zone and worst they say you need a certain level faction trade permit to sell Fertiliser and Pesticides...they have to get those things in if they want to continue having stuff to export, they are vital to the economy.
Similar vein of reasoning for raw ores going to Refinery zones or basic processed resources going to industrial Zones.
Now Population Zones that have no real export can declair anything illegal to trade, no problem, they are strictly consumer economies and if they want everyone wearing local manufactored grass skirts and banana leaves for clothes that's legitimate.

I'd respectfully disagree. Like I said, governments do all kinds of wonky things all the time. While you and I think that pesticides and the like are necessary for the economy to function, maybe they aren't (local flora/fauna react poorly? No GMO folks own the senate? No local pests so no need?).

It's the same argument for medicines, vudka, luxury rations, or personal weapons.

It's not a huge deal regardless, as you can (almost always) find another planet to sell them at.

I'd imagine once the smuggling system gets put into place, you'll also have the option of getting on the black market and offloading those goods.

[fallen]

To be clear, you can't sell Fertilizer there because the Law Level is higher than the Legality level of Fertilizer. This probably indicates that the local authorities don't like fertilizer for all sorts of reasons, possibly as a is risk to their authority. This is a local decision, made by the local Prince and his/her trade ministers.

A Permit gives you the right to trade in certain classes of goods. Legality and Permits work separately. Yes, you have the right to trade in Fertilizer on Javat worlds. But, note that the local Javat Prince has outlawed Fertilizer. Your Permit is no good here, because that cargo is illegal.

The next update will be really clear with icons and indication on Legal / Permit Restricted / Legal with your Permit / Illegal for all trade goods, and provide some filters on these.

[fallen]

Feb 14, 2017 22:05:29 GMT -5 johndramey said:

I'd respectfully disagree. Like I said, governments do all kinds of wonky things all the time. While you and I think that pesticides and the like are necessary for the economy to function, maybe they aren't (local flora/fauna react poorly? No GMO folks own the senate? No local pests so no need?).

Yes, absolutely.

Crazy governments, overbearing princes, politics that seem insane when viewed with a modern Earth-eyeball? That's Star Traders!

[johndramey]

To be honest, I have way too much fun thinking up goofy backstories on why X product is illegal on Y world. Conversely, making up backstories on why X product is legal on Y world.

Like I said, my 0 law planet is totally the wild west. The Javatian mob took over and bribed everyone in power, then once they got what they wanted... BAM! Everyone in a position of power was executed. Now, the government is just a puppet for the Javatian mob.