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Post by xdesperado on Feb 25, 2017 21:23:30 GMT -5
Think the penalties from Trade bans may be overdone compared to other actions affecting Rep.
Understand we can't keep everyone liking us and that at some point several factions will be wanting to see us dead but the current penalties from trade bans can make maintaining good relations with more than 1 or 2 factions nearly impossible and that makes playing as a mainly trade focused Captain very hard if not impossible.
As an example my Zenrin Captain had +121 rep with Zenrin and +3 rep with Javat.
Had taken a mission from a DeValtos contact to escort a diplomat around a number of Javat worlds. Knew I'd get some negative Rep from Javat for doing the mission but would still be in position to access facilities and could use Javat contacts to either buy pardons or take missions to get it back up to the neutral range.
Unfortunately in middle of mission Zenrin and Javat declared trade ban so knew I couldn't sell to either factions worlds during remainder of mission. However, the goods I already had aboard from both factions continued to generate negative reputation even when sold to other factions not involved with the trade ban.
Finished mission for DeValtos and my Zenrin reputation had been crashed to +5 while my Javat rep is sitting at -170. The diplomatic mission I was contracted to complete even with my crew participating in every step of the negotiations generated less than 10 negative rep with Javat. Rest of that is all from the trade ban.
In a matter of a few turns I saw a neutral faction turn into one that will be actively hunting me and my own faction drop me to someone they find barely acceptable.
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Post by fallen on Feb 25, 2017 22:12:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. I've taken an RFE under #3513 to check the balance of these penalties.
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by athios on Feb 25, 2017 23:02:49 GMT -5
I think the rep penalties are pretty similar to in STRPG. That said, I have always thought they were overblown. If you are considering toning them down, might i suggest -1 rep per $500 worth of transactions?
P.S. If there is a trade ban involving two factions that you care about, best to Stash that cargo until the whole thing blows over (which could be a few years)
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Post by fallen on Feb 25, 2017 23:16:27 GMT -5
I think the rep penalties are pretty similar to in STRPG. That said, I have always thought they were overblown. If you are considering toning them down, might i suggest -1 rep per $500 worth of transactions? P.S. If there is a trade ban involving two factions that you care about, best to Stash that cargo until the whole thing blows over (which could be a few years) Yes, they are directly based on the ST RPG penalties which have worked for years  It's an important moment when you are making a choice, trading into a ban is very damaging. The warning is far more front-and-center next update, so you can't miss it. Then you just have to decide if its worth it. |
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Post by xdesperado on Feb 26, 2017 0:20:25 GMT -5
I think the rep penalties are pretty similar to in STRPG. That said, I have always thought they were overblown. If you are considering toning them down, might i suggest -1 rep per $500 worth of transactions? P.S. If there is a trade ban involving two factions that you care about, best to Stash that cargo until the whole thing blows over (which could be a few years) Yes, they are directly based on the ST RPG penalties which have worked for years It's an important moment when you are making a choice, trading into a ban is very damaging. The warning is far more front-and-center next update, so you can't miss it. Then you just have to decide if its worth it. Correcting/gaining rep in ST RPG is far easier and more straightforward than what we currently get in ST2. My Captain had spent a lot of time building his Zenrin rep yet compared to where he would have been in ST RPG after that much time it was almost nothing and very easily wiped out with one or two trades that happened not because I traded good to/bought from the banned faction but because I sold goods that had been bought prior to the ban from the banned faction to a 3rd faction which wasn't involved at all. |
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Feb 26, 2017 0:23:43 GMT -5
Is it true that affected goods can be sold at Indie Exchanges with no rep penalty? I don't remember...
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Post by grävling on Feb 26, 2017 0:28:16 GMT -5
Think the penalties from Trade bans may be overdone compared to other actions affecting Rep. ... Unfortunately in middle of mission Zenrin and Javat declared trade ban so knew I couldn't sell to either factions worlds during remainder of mission. However, the goods I already had aboard from both factions continued to generate negative reputation even when sold to other factions not involved with the trade ban. ... You sure about that? The stuff in your hold remembers where you got it, and gets you in trouble when you sell it to, say House Thulun who isn't involved in the war? 'cause I am pretty sure I am not seeing this, only trouble from using any exchanges of the involved factions. Unless one of the places you are trading decides to get into an alliance with one of your houses' hated enemies or the like ... I just wish instead of having to remember to look up faction politics just in case some fool in your own house has declared a trade ban while you were flying around the galaxy trying to turn a profit we had 10 flags flying as standards with their rep and political status constantly available. But then I am a big one for 'stick all of this in a hole someplace, we'll get back to this business later'. |
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Post by xdesperado on Feb 26, 2017 1:36:39 GMT -5
Think the penalties from Trade bans may be overdone compared to other actions affecting Rep. ... Unfortunately in middle of mission Zenrin and Javat declared trade ban so knew I couldn't sell to either factions worlds during remainder of mission. However, the goods I already had aboard from both factions continued to generate negative reputation even when sold to other factions not involved with the trade ban. ... You sure about that? The stuff in your hold remembers where you got it, and gets you in trouble when you sell it to, say House Thulun who isn't involved in the war? 'cause I am pretty sure I am not seeing this, only trouble from using any exchanges of the involved factions. Unless one of the places you are trading decides to get into an alliance with one of your houses' hated enemies or the like ... I just wish instead of having to remember to look up faction politics just in case some fool in your own house has declared a trade ban while you were flying around the galaxy trying to turn a profit we had 10 flags flying as standards with their rep and political status constantly available. But then I am a big one for 'stick all of this in a hole someplace, we'll get back to this business later'. Positive, last sale I made was to DeValtos zone. They were not and had not been involved in any trade bans, yet in the information window it came up that I'd just taken -60 rep with Javat and when I looked sure enough my rep with Javat had dropped another 60 points. Didn't catch where I lost my Zenrin rep at but had to be with 3rd factions somewhere since I didn't buy or sell anything to Javat after knowing about the ban. |
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athios
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Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Feb 26, 2017 1:44:44 GMT -5
Was there an Alliance in place?
Btw, do Alliance and Trade Alliance here retain the definitions from STRPG?
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Post by fallen on Feb 26, 2017 2:14:35 GMT -5
Was there an Alliance in place? Btw, do Alliance and Trade Alliance here retain the definitions from STRPG? Yes, generally they do. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 27, 2017 0:06:19 GMT -5
You sure about that? The stuff in your hold remembers where you got it, and gets you in trouble when you sell it to, say House Thulun who isn't involved in the war? 'cause I am pretty sure I am not seeing this, only trouble from using any exchanges of the involved factions. Unless one of the places you are trading decides to get into an alliance with one of your houses' hated enemies or the like ... I just wish instead of having to remember to look up faction politics just in case some fool in your own house has declared a trade ban while you were flying around the galaxy trying to turn a profit we had 10 flags flying as standards with their rep and political status constantly available. But then I am a big one for 'stick all of this in a hole someplace, we'll get back to this business later'. Positive, last sale I made was to DeValtos zone. They were not and had not been involved in any trade bans, yet in the information window it came up that I'd just taken -60 rep with Javat and when I looked sure enough my rep with Javat had dropped another 60 points. Didn't catch where I lost my Zenrin rep at but had to be with 3rd factions somewhere since I didn't buy or sell anything to Javat after knowing about the ban. Everything sounds like a bug until we get the details. I'm happy to explain any rules! |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 27, 2017 0:07:23 GMT -5
Is it true that affected goods can be sold at Indie Exchanges with no rep penalty? I don't remember... yes, 100% no Reputation penalties for selling at Indy worlds. I don't know if the OP will accept anything less than A+ to A+ maximum profit for his trades, but if Reputation is actually a concern then the entire issue can be avoided with an Indy sale. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 27, 2017 0:12:01 GMT -5
I think the rep penalties are pretty similar to in STRPG. That said, I have always thought they were overblown. If you are considering toning them down, might i suggest -1 rep per $500 worth of transactions? P.S. If there is a trade ban involving two factions that you care about, best to Stash that cargo until the whole thing blows over (which could be a few years) The Reputation penalties in ST2 are scaled based on the work we did in ST RPG. It would be wasteful of us not to lean on 5 year of math, charts and statistical analysis done for our previous ST RPG. That said, there is definitely a vocal minority of users who find the ST RPG Reputation system unfair. We need to gather a lot more data. Hopefully people will keep playing. As we move forward implementing difficulty scaling, we will be adding that to Reputation adjustments as well. Harder difficulty, bigger penalties. Playing on Basic will reduce your Reputation penalties, and that may be a good option for a lot of people in this mindset. |
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611
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Post by athios on Feb 27, 2017 2:41:40 GMT -5
I think a lot of the "historical baggage" on this front will be shed once Smugglers & Black Markets are live.
That said, it would be very nice if we could get a "preview" of Rep loss prior to confirming a transaction.
Example:
Selling the 20 units of Basic Medicine will cause -6 Rep with Faction (Might be worth it to free up the cargo space.)
Selling the 20 units of Crap Harvesters will cause -97 Rep with Faction (Umm... I think there was an indie farm two quadrants over...)
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 27, 2017 11:04:28 GMT -5
I think a lot of the "historical baggage" on this front will be shed once Smugglers & Black Markets are live. That said, it would be very nice if we could get a "preview" of Rep loss prior to confirming a transaction. Example: Selling the 20 units of Basic Medicine will cause -6 Rep with Faction (Might be worth it to free up the cargo space.) Selling the 20 units of Crap Harvesters will cause -97 Rep with Faction (Umm... I think there was an indie farm two quadrants over...) Might be something we'll consider adding in the future. |
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