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Post by John Robinson on May 22, 2017 19:30:46 GMT -5
Tables: Of all the tables I built for HoS the Leveling Table is hands down the most difficult. I started it with my usual "data mining", but without fallen 's help, it might never have been completed. Thanks Again Andrew! | HoS only has | 8 | Character types | 64 Levels | Attributes increase when leveling | +Skills level | | ST2 already has | 23 | Captain / crew types | 32 Levels | Attributes do not increase when leveling | +Skills level |
In ST2 the number of levels, captains, and crew are likely to grow very large. It is physically impossible for me to data mine that much information. What are you talking about? The skills table is already being displayed!The format just isn't cutting it for me. I might be the only tester that finds the wiki skills table hard to use. Will I be the only one when ST2 is released? The way it is now, I don't use the wiki skills table.
It is mentally less taxing to just record the information while playing ST2 in split screen. Back to data mining uggh.What is important? If the skill hasn't increased when a rank levels, then put a 0 in the column , don't make me compare levels to
see where it changed and by how many points. If the skill increased by 1 then put +1 in the column. If 2 then +2 etc.
Keep the same format as seen in the current wiki skills table, just change the numbering system. Then I can, and will use it.Just illustrating the concept: | Rank | Job | Skill 1 | # | Skill 2 | # | Skill 3 | # | | 1 | Bounty Hunter | Rifles | +2 | Evasion | +1 | Navigation | +1 | | 2 | Bounty Hunter | Rifles | 0 | Evasion | 0 | Navigation | +1 | | 3... | Bounty Hunter | Rifles | +1 | Evasion | 0 | Navigation | +1 |
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| | 1 | Mechanic | Ship Ops | +2 | Electronics | +1 | Repair | +3 | | 2 | Mechanic | Ship Ops | 0 | Electronics | +1 | Repair | 0 | | 3... | Mechanic |
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Without a wiki skills table I can easily use. For my favorite Captains & Officers I'll bull my way through it. But can never be sure of accuracy, it could change over night.
For example, thinking about HoS for Selen I would have created a leveling table for her regardless of effort.
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Post by fallen on May 22, 2017 20:04:05 GMT -5
Interesting request for a change. I hope other players will weigh in.
The +1, 0, +2 notation means you never know what the final value of the Skill is and to me is unusable. I'd have to do math all the time. All I really want to know is "what is the Skill at level 7" -- that is why the table is built that way.
Love to hear from others!
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Post by grävling on May 22, 2017 20:41:45 GMT -5
I want to know 'how long will it take me to get 4 more points of pistol if I just train Spy?' so I can decide -- 'ok, fine, we do that' vs 'nope too long, got to train in Pistoleer instead'.
Also I tend to run my officers all the way up in one job until we reach either level 11, or 'NOT IMPLEMENTED'. I also rarely give them low level talents -- I want my officers to reserve their talent slots for level 8 and level 11 talents. Low level stuff is for crew.
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Post by fallen on May 22, 2017 21:08:12 GMT -5
I want to know 'how long will it take me to get 4 more points of pistol if I just train Spy?' so I can decide -- 'ok, fine, we do that' vs 'nope too long, got to train in Pistoleer instead'. Also I tend to run my officers all the way up in one job until we reach either level 11, or 'NOT IMPLEMENTED'. I also rarely give them low level talents -- I want my officers to reserve their talent slots for level 8 and level 11 talents. Low level stuff is for crew. Can you comment on the table format? |
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Post by grävling on May 23, 2017 3:02:55 GMT -5
Ideally, I want something different from either of you. Like fallen I want the totals, not +1 and 0 and +2 notation. But like John Robinson I want to compare things 2 up -- and sometimes 3 up side-by-side. So I don't want a separate table for each job, which goes on a separate page, beside the talents for each job. I want a great big humungous table that shows all jobs side by side, and the ability to filter so it only shows the jobs you are interested in (such as all the ones that train Pistols). I also want a column of how much experience it takes you to get to whatever level you are looking at. I want to know, by looking 'Do spies progress in pistol as quickly as combat medics?' without having to remember one table while looking at the next. And I want to know - I have an Officer with level 1 Pistoleer Level 5 Spy. If I stick his next 3,000 points into Spy, how many points more of pistol will I get? And what level Spy will he be? And if instead I stick his next 3,000 points into Pistoleer, how many more points of Pistol will that get me? And what level Pistoleer will he be? It would be good if I could get a way to have the table display 'all the jobs that provide Pilot (or any other skill), compared side-by-side'. I.e. have the table look that up for me, and have me not have to select jobs by hand. But that is a convenience. Selecting by hand would be fine. Right now my ship has suffered 3 unfortunate deaths among my Pilot squad. So it needs more Pilot. Should I just replace them? Or should I buy some Pirates instead? Oh look, Star Trader provides Pilot. Maybe I should just give that as a new job to an existing officer? Easier to make these decisions if you have the data side-by-side. By the way, I think that startraders.gamepedia.com/Pirate should be listing Pilot in column 1, not evasion. |
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Post by John Robinson on May 23, 2017 4:40:55 GMT -5
Interesting request for a change. I hope other players will weigh in. The +1, 0, +2 notation means you never know what the final value of the Skill is and to me is unusable. I'd have to do math all the time. All I really want to know is "what is the Skill at level 7" -- that is why the table is built that way. Love to hear from others! Looking at it that way, it's an excellent, and valid way to present the data. I made my case with a little too much drama. This is how I use the information. It's easy to forget it's not always about me  The game is played with characters having up to 3 jobs. I find getting a running total more difficult to figure out using the wiki display format. | My Merchant Captain has | Doctor job(2) | Diplomat job(3) |
| Merchant shares | Command skill with | Doctor job(2) | | Merchant shares | Negotiate skill with | Diplomat job(3) |
If the wiki used the 0, +1, +2 system I could quickly jump over see what job rank I'm looking for and add a point when required. The forum HoS Leveling table is the conversion from the same format displayed in the wiki ST2 skills table. The sample table below illustrates what I mean. I actually use this during play. (the Captain started with +6 negotiate bonus)
| Captain Checklist | Job-1: Merchant | Job-2: Doctor | Job-3: Diplomat |
| XP | LVL | Job/Rank | TP | Talent | Description | Skills | Skills | Skills | | 0 | 1 | Merchant(1) | 0 | x | x | ___+2 Negotiate(8) | ___+1 Command(1) | ___+1 Tactics(1) | | 50 | 2 | Doctor(1) | 1 | ____Medical Staff |
| ___+3 Doctor(5) | ___+1 Command(2) | x | | 150 | 3 | Diplomat(1) | 0 | x | x | ___+3 Negotiate(11) | ___+1 Intimidate(1) | x | | 275 | 4 | Merchant(2) | 1 | ____Win Compromise |
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| | 400 | 5 | Merchant(3) | 0 | x | x |
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| | 600 | 6 | Merchant(4) | 1 | ____Market Confident | |
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| | 800 | 7 | Merchant(5) | 0 | x | x |
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| | 1,000 | 8 | Merchant(6) | 1 | ____Garner Favor (MR5) | |
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| | 1,200 | 9 | Merchant(7) | 0 | x | x |
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| | 1,500 | 10 | Merchant(8) | 0 | x | x |
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| | 1,800 | 11 | Diplomat(2) | 0 | x | x |
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| | 2,100 | 12 | Diplomat(3) | 1 | ____Righteous Profit (MR8) |
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Post by fallen on May 23, 2017 11:07:26 GMT -5
That is definitely correct. I will work on it detecting the primary / secondary / tertiary skill and ordering those columns correctly. I am not sure the WIKI is going to be capable of one giant super table for all jobs and skills. |
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Post by grävling on May 23, 2017 13:03:56 GMT -5
I am not sure the WIKI is going to be capable of one giant super table for all jobs and skills. And from there we move into the land of programatically generating larger tables from existing smaller ones and --- while I am sure you could learn how to do this, and if it's how you want to spend your time, then I am all for letting you do what you want -- but if the object of the exercise is to make _me_ happy, there are dozens of things I wish you would be working on instead. Better Wiki Character Levelling Tables doesn't make my first page of 'things I wish we had'. |
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Post by fallen on May 23, 2017 13:27:38 GMT -5
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athios
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 Supporter ]
Posts: 1,611 
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Post by athios on May 23, 2017 14:18:51 GMT -5
Grouped List of Talents that have a chance to fire during specific events.
e.g. list of talents that may fire:
- while landing on a settlement
- after landing on a settlement
- while spicing
- while visiting the doctor
This will help with decision making on Talent progression across the entire crew, especially if you are aiming to achieve specific outcomes. For example, I forbid all Crew Dogs from learning spicing Talents because I don't want them competing with my Merchant spicing Talents.
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Post by contributor on Sept 26, 2017 2:14:42 GMT -5
I know you guys have a lot going on right now, so just tuck this in to a list to get to whenever you can and hopefully it won't be to complicate anyways. We need a master trade good list though. It should list all the pertinent info for every good including base price, legality, permit level, in demand on..., supplied by..., rare Yes/No. There might be more basic info too that I'm not thinking of right now. If rare goods are supplied by particular contact types that could be included too, so far I haven't figured out a logic to them.
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Post by fallen on Sept 26, 2017 10:44:26 GMT -5
Yes, we will eventually be able to output that from the game database.
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Post by Sinocelt on Oct 10, 2017 3:35:45 GMT -5
This will help with decision making on Talent progression across the entire crew, especially if you are aiming to achieve specific outcomes. For example, I forbid all Crew Dogs from learning spicing Talents because I don't want them competing with my Merchant spicing Talents. Wait, what, they're mutually exclusive?? |
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Post by fallen on Oct 10, 2017 10:28:12 GMT -5
Only one Talent fires per event.
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Post by Sinocelt on Oct 10, 2017 11:46:49 GMT -5
Yiiikes! I'll have to revise my Talent strategy.
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