Teach me how to use Fortify Position

[drspendlove]

Ok, I wrote the (current) wiki entry on this talent, so I know the basics:

Fortify Position is an Engineer talent that buffs a group with mediocre levels of critical hit chance and armor (two very important stats.) Very interestingly, it uses Engineering skill instead of Tactics to dictate how many targets it can affect. Also interestingly, but upsettingly, it costs 3 AP to use, which precludes a lot of actions on my Engineer that turn such as attacking a TP (assuming my Capture talent isn't ultra high level) or laying down a turret.

I'd love to make an engineer that just focuses on turrets, this buff, and turret stance but the AP cost kills that plan. Suggestions?

[En1gma]

This buff is not needed and is actually sub-optimal IMO. There are so many things that an Engineer should be doing, and I don't feel that this is one of them.

Engineers should be
-Buffing with Power Field
-Dropping Turrets
-Venting Heat
-Capping TP
-Supporting Removal with long range pistols.

There are very very few instances in which it is better to stay in one place over moving on to the next objective.

That being said, this could be used in conjunction with a Soldier's Calling Shots, to give a Scout and a couple of Turrets a way to deal a large amount of damage, but again the goal is to move on, not spend an entire Templar defending an area.

[En1gma]

Also could be used for a Hydra, another Templar which boosts crit levels to a stupid level.

[drspendlove]

Do you only think the overall strategy of a slower approach to level is flawed, or do you think this skill would need a buff of some kind even if that were viable?

[Brutus Aurelius]

Feb 12, 2018 15:26:30 GMT -5 drspendlove said:

Do you only think the overall strategy of a slower approach to level is flawed, or do you think this skill would need a buff of some kind even if that were viable?

Buffs for defensive positioning are great for levels where you need to have some Templars hold a Tact Point.

Some longtime vets like En1gma and myself know the levels and the capabilities of our Knights well enough that we can risk high speed pushes through them. But there is nothing wrong with a slower level approach. I myself tend to take the levels slower than En1gma prefers to.

[En1gma]

I am very biased. The game was built to screw you over if you stop moving for too long-- the AI is good enough to start long term scheming and strategy, like holding troops back and coordinating their efforts over an entire battlefield.

By always being on the move, you disallow the Xeno the chance to corner you or amass enough SP to really screw you over. Brutus is right that it's valuable to hold tact points, and this is the only time I'm that a Templar should use this talent, though arguably that point and RP could be spent on Turrets and be more effective than a buff that will wear out once the Battleforce moves on.

Moving through levels faster = more RP, EXP, and keeps Templars alive to fight another battle. Every player should strive to get their turn counts and movements as optimized as possible, our lineages demand it.

(I get really into this game, so please don't take me too seriously. If your play style is slower and you have fun with the game that's never a bad thing!!!)

[ntsheep]

"Should we help out here?"

"I don't know. It's been a while since we played."

"Yeah but didn't we write a guide for this game? We should know what were talking about."

"We're a digital life form with multiple personalities arguing with our selves over posting something helpful or just derailing a thread for the fun of it in an attempt to cause three laughs, a smirk, a WTF comment, and most likely only going to succeed in getting fallen to scold us."

"So we should help out then."


The best use of this talent is going to be for levels where you may need to defend a position for a certain number of turns. Thankfully you have the option of re-doing your talent points before a level. Engineers are best used as support from the rear. Turrets are best used as decoys and to cover your rear positions. The main purpose of Engineers is TP capture. It sucks to be in a bathroom with no TP.

"HEY! Get back on track. Stop the jokes!"

"Sorry, couldn't help it."


Engineers are great support. For the first 1/3rd of the game you can have some fun and use them for more of a front line unit, but you really need to keep them focused on three things as the game progresses,

1: TP capture and control.
2: Heat reduction of front line units.
3: Sentry Turrets for decoys and temporary defense.

If you have a point or two that can be spared, put them into this talent but don't worry to much about it. Even just one or two points of armor and a little more chance for a critical hit help out.

[drspendlove]

It just seems so unattractive at a 3 AP cost. If I could lay down a turret AND use this buff on my group in one turn, that would make a difference to me.

[En1gma]

Very good point. I hadn't even considered the loss of tempo...

It's a good talent on paper for sure, but actually using it well is difficult.

[fallen]

While speed may be one of the optimal strategies of BF, many players enjoy turtling up, taking their time and slaughtering hundreds of xeno. Fortify Position is a kind of buff that is great for that play style.

We'll look at an AP reduction for the Talent.

[drspendlove]

I fall in the turtle camp, usually. I just cannot justify those levels of buffs for 3 AP.

[fallen]

drspendlove - very interesting feedback.

A review of the buff indicates that it needs some balance changes when considering all the new stuff that we've added.

[ntsheep]

A good example of when you can put some points in Fortify Position and still be rocking the Sentry Turrets is during your second play through. You have a good amount of base points for skills and talents. Turtling can be fun when your going for the high kills achievements.

[ntsheep]

[drspendlove]

I have yet to do a second playthrough via new game+ and get very far. I simply have too many challenge modes and difficulties to try!