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Post by truealcove on Mar 20, 2018 3:35:40 GMT -5
As far as I understand, all +damage talent and equipments mean +max damage. Is it possible to indicate this somehow/somewhere (or my apology if this is already in the library). When I first play I thought +damage means +overall damage for like 10 hours, and then got really depressed when I realize all my build was built on the wrong idea (the realization that what I thought was +50 damage actually gives +25 damage in average struck me hard  ). I actually play a new captain because of that - but maybe I would do so no matter what? To be honest, I'd love +overall damage more than +max damage, mostly because it's psychologically sad when my templars waste so many damage for randomized overkill. But I guess the game should follow what your very nice dev team designs  Nevertheless, I feel like some indication will be great especially to future new players. |
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Post by fallen on Mar 20, 2018 7:39:56 GMT -5
truealcove - thanks for the feedback! We'll take a look and see if this can be mentioned in the library or made more clear in a few places. As the game has been released and balanced for 3 years, that is definitely not something we will change at this point  Think of it this way, if we made it +Max Damage, all of those bonuses would be chopped to about 40% of their current number, so I think you get a pretty good deal with +Max Damage. However, as you mention, its an important point to know when building out a group, gear and Talents.
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Post by drspendlove on Mar 20, 2018 9:07:10 GMT -5
fallen, it would be exactly 50% their current number. It's the 'expected value' of 0 -> max = 1/2 * max.
Regardless, I agree that changing it at this point would be madness. Also, it adds some spice because equipment that adds minimum damage becomes a tactically interesting advantage, somewhat unique to it that buffs cannot accomplish.
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Post by fallen on Mar 20, 2018 10:59:52 GMT -5
fallen, it would be exactly 50% their current number. It's the 'expected value' of 0 -> max = 1/2 * max. Regardless, I agree that changing it at this point would be madness. Also, it adds some spice because equipment that adds minimum damage becomes a tactically interesting advantage, somewhat unique to it that buffs cannot accomplish. Sorry that we disagree about the balance of how we'd change it to max damage. Just sharing how we would approach it if we did make a change. This is not something we will change. |
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Post by drspendlove on Mar 20, 2018 11:14:04 GMT -5
Ah, I misunderstood what you said. I obviously have no right to say what you would do if you were to make that change! Sorry to seem presumptuous.
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Post by truealcove on Mar 20, 2018 12:24:40 GMT -5
Cool Yeah the balance thing is big and now I see how such a change will be madness Cool discussion nevertheless. Yeah in practice +50 max damage is actually worse than +25 to both min and max damage. Anyhow, feel free to forget about my second part. Since I am already used to the first part (an indication that +damage means +max damage) it sort of matters little to me. On the other hand we will definitely advertise this game to friends, and I think an indication will be helpful as it's the main "you thought it works that way but it totally doesn't'' moment to me |
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Post by fallen on Mar 20, 2018 12:25:43 GMT -5
Ah, I misunderstood what you said. I obviously have no right to say what you would do if you were to make that change! Sorry to seem presumptuous. No worries! I definitely get that D50 averages out to 25 I guess the discussion is kind of moot (as to what you'd do with max damage only) because you'd have to go straight to Armor and what you'd do about it. If you just left it at +Max Damage, you'd have to tone it down as Armor is also increasing a value that includes 50% randomization, etc. It would be a massive cascade. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Mar 20, 2018 12:25:58 GMT -5
years of work designing and balancing the math
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Post by truealcove on Mar 20, 2018 14:45:00 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity is this a classical D&D thing that +damage means +max damage? I am not old enough and my childhood began with Diablo 1/2 where they'd put "adds 12-21 damage," etc. |
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Post by drspendlove on Mar 20, 2018 15:19:06 GMT -5
It is not a D&D thing.
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Post by fallen on Mar 20, 2018 15:23:57 GMT -5
Nope, just the way the combat system works in Templar Battleforce and Heroes of Steel. The design decision focuses on the value of a weapon (or magical spell), as the only provider of Base Dmg. Heroes of Steel has some additional rules about Strength-based weapons gaining Base Dmg from high STR. None of this is a D&D thing In fact, all of these games were created because when I was 7 and Cory Trese was 9, we didn't like D&D. So we made something else. And then just kept making. |
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). I actually play a new captain because of that - but maybe I would do so no matter what?
Nevertheless, I feel like some indication will be great especially to future new players.
Think of it this way, if we made it +Max Damage, all of those bonuses would be chopped to about 40% of their current number, so I think you get a pretty good deal with +Max Damage. However, as you mention, its an important point to know when building out a group, gear and Talents.
