The Hunt for v2 Default

[Cory Trese]

The v2 map generator and all the associated features will be rolling out pretty soon and we'll soon be on the hunt for a new default map.

This thread is ready. Along the way we'll be asking these questions:

- What is the right Quadrant Count for the v2 Map default? v1 uses 32.
- What is the right Density for the v2 Map default? v1 uses 'Packed'
- What seed should we use for the v2 Map default? v1 uses st-v01-32-4-190827144

[LordofSyn]

En1gma. We got this.

[En1gma]

HELL YES WE DO.

[ntsheep]

Be careful Ryan, some things in here don't react to well to ETA's

[drspendlove]

Spendlove's Criteria (My personal scoring system for a v2 map)

My philosophy is that we want the default Cadar experience to be no more difficult than it currently is. Secondarily, I believe that a slightly larger map would be more tolerable than a slightly smaller map for folks. Additionally, I believe that there will be lower chance of confusion of player reports of trouble between default maps if the number of quadrants are different from one to the other. Thus I propose a 33 to 36 quadrant size map with density 'Packed'. Within that category, there are some things I aver must be maintained. After that, I have a scoring system for the best of maps. If someone has a map seed that they'd like to discuss specifically with me, I'd love to know what its score is subject to these criteria. Participation is totally optional, however.

Must have:

* 5 or more starting quadrants with 10 or lower danger, one of which is Cadar.
* Cadar's starting position has at least two gates, each of which are not dead ends.
* 3 or more different kinds of Rare Trade Goods
* Farfallen Rim is somewhat central to many tightly connected quadrants.
* All factions control at least 2 quadrants
* No faction controls more than 8 quadrants

Bonus Points (per faction):

+1 per Every faction start with 10 or lower danger
+1 per each faction start with at least two gates, each of which are not dead ends.

Bonus Points (one-off):

+1 At least one cluster of wilderness-heavy zones (like a triangle pattern of mostly wild zone quadrants)
+1 Has 4 or more distinct rare trade goods
+2 An Indie zone with trade law 1 or 2 of type orbital, industrial or high tech industrial exists but is at least 6 jumps away from the Farfallen Rim
+2 If one potential route to the Farfallen Rim contains one or more 12+ danger quadrants but at least one other route to reach it exists. (Dangerous shortcut options)
+6 At least one Indie world with starport 9 or 10 exists

Maximum possible score is 30. Let's see how close we can get!

[dragonspear]

Great list!

I'd also add availability of star ports where you can get most any/all upgrades and choices of ships, and enough variety of planets for recruitment purposes. Getting a feel that some planets are good for patrol, spying, exploration, trade, black market, recruitment, etc. is part of what makes the best maps great. You can try a little of everything and learn the game, and the default map supports the narrative story arcs as well. Having 'safe' harbors and dangerous 'frontiers' gives the player choice in gameplay, willing to venture out for danger when they feel ready.

I've been looking forward to v2 maps for a long time - really excited to hear they are about ready to come out!

[Cory Trese]

A scoring system is really a top-notch approach to this, @spendlove.

That's a really good way to think about this, and helps me frame it better in my mind.

I might actually be able to write a seeker that tries to find high scoring seeds. Investigating

[Aimstrong]

Question for the map hunters : can a quadrant have more than 4 gates ?
I wouldn't mind having Farfallen Rim with maybe 5 or 6 as the exception (IF possible)

Below my personal opinion regarding improvements to default map.

Also don't know if people like strings 1-2 gates quadrants (e.g. default map 10 straight quadrants from Sween Belt <-> Catherine Pass --see img)
I personally don't enjoy them that much (high danger>=10 too in 7 of them).

This makes this zone of the map a bit of a risk in my opinion (RTGs are found at the end of the string).

A depth first graph gets you 13 levels from Farfallen Rim to Catherine Pass (next one being only 7 to Cirm Sector)

Connecting some of those 10 quadrants to Cael Reach/Dragon Rim/Dixye Maelstorm would help the map a lot imo.

Thank you for reading.

[Cory Trese]

Each quadrant can support between 1 and 4 gates.

[drspendlove]

If we can automate this... I had a much larger list that I pruned down because I didn't want to overwhelm folks with rules...

[fallen]

Aimstrong thanks for the suggestions! Variations and long branches are key to making a good map.

Excited to see what maps players post up!

[Cory Trese]

Nov 25, 2020 10:19:55 GMT -5 drspendlove said:

If we can automate this... I had a much larger list that I pruned down because I didn't want to overwhelm folks with rules...

After review, the automation stuff just takes too much time I suspect.

We'll crowd source a solution (or fail and stick with the v1 default) to save schedule for CKF.

I think the basic rules will be good to help people only nominate maps that pass muster.

Selecting the right default map will take some finesse and a bit more than the raw #s.

[Cory Trese]

Seed candidates will need to come from v3.1.3 or later

[drspendlove]

Score 17: st-v02-35-4-130773945 -- Weak Alta Mesa Start but everyone else is happy


Score 18: st-v02-35-4-35546163 -- Very solid, Cadar at the center, Has a bonus temple of refuge


Score 19: st-v02-33-2-170326991 Maximum density, pretty neat danger routes involved. Everything within 6 jumps of FFR.


Score 20: st-v02-35-4-35774706 -- Really well connected overall, good tough choices for navigation, terrible Mok start.


Score 20: st-v02-35-4-70635238 -- Strong Javat and Mok starts with rare trade goods, easy sales to Indies, close to FFR (Javat) and low danger. Has a golden path to FFR and a host of dangerous paths to reach there for the impatient.


Score 20: st-v02-35-4-24250083 -- Kids interrupted an analysis of this one


Score 21: st-v02-35-4-182459700 -- Giving 1 of the 2 points for the interesting route to FFR. This map lets you sell Xeno Artifacts at a whole slew of locations, at least one of which is Industrial.



Score 22: st-v02-33-4-1189615
Rychart has a lonely start, and De Valtos a dangerous one. Otherwise this is a splendid map. There are some choke points that could be tricky though.

[Aimstrong]

As per Andrew's request here is the seed : st-v02-45-2-144154109

Javat danger 6
De Valtos danger 12
Zenrin danger 10
AM danger 9
Mok danger 5
Song danger 16
Cadar danger 4
Rychart danger 13
Thulun danger 13

Pros:

prime location @farfallen Rim all faction start <=4jumps of it

nice shape if only one of the connections in red can be added it would be super nice

AM has Prime planet in starting location

Cons:

But overall this map has above high danger ( showing an average number of quads with danger >10 for the map would be nice)
the majority of quadrants have >10 danger (don't know if the increase in number of quadrants increases danger)
less than average RTG (only 6 ) kinda low for a 45 quad map

TLDR: without major tweaking not a candidate for default map.