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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2012 11:16:40 GMT -5
I've been making up some new star traders upgrades and now that I've FINALLY finished (takes a while to come up with upgrades that would be both original and useful) I thought Id share it. Please feel free to comment for feedback or questions. ;D EDIT: Made 2 new attachments with more balanced upgrades "star traders new upgrades2" and "star traders new upgrades 3". Please see the "star traders new upgrades3" attachment that I posted later on the first page of this forum. The only reason this attachment is still here is because I can't remove it Attachments:
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Fenikso
Templar
[ Star Traders 2 & Elite Supporter ]
Nobody expects the Rychart Inquisition!
Posts: 753
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Post by Fenikso on Jul 16, 2012 14:23:27 GMT -5
Nice! Interesting read. However I am not sure if they may be implemented or if they would be balanced at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2012 20:43:04 GMT -5
What do you mean?
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BlastGT1
Templar
[ Heroes of Steel Supporter ]
Turning ships into shards with Alchemy
Posts: 920 
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Post by BlastGT1 on Jul 16, 2012 22:57:04 GMT -5
Game balance is very important in ST, and any ship, character, upgrade, etc that gives a major advantage would take away from the challenge of the game.
Sent from my ADR6300 using ProBoards
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 9:40:44 GMT -5
I understand. Although my intention was not to make new upgrades that would be more powerful than the upgrades currently available. My goal was to make upgrades that had unique advantages that made them original and fresh.I do agree that prehaps some upgrades like the one that increased crew cargo and hull by 20% an the one that increased torps and guns by 10 might have been too much. However I feel most of them would do well in the balance of the game. Which of the upgrades do you feel are too powerful? Maybe I can change them.
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Post by phantombudgie on Jul 17, 2012 13:53:40 GMT -5
The thing about the current upgrade system is that it forces you to prioritise - it annoys me a lot but in the end it's the best way. You can't max out everything and your two or three favourites are sometimes in the same category so you have to think and plan - you can't just have it all and make the game too easy (although at insane play difficulty you do need all the hep you can get!)
Many of the ideas are good and are new - to help Cory out, you should also think about which upgrades ahould go into which categories.
Spice cabinet is interesting - would support that one.
Deadly Launchers could be good if the balance is right - less availability and higher cost would probably work pretty well to balance higher damage, if scaled correctly. Similar for Ultimate barrage guns.
Luxury Room is a very good one. It makes the First Mate seem more worthwhile.
Mechanic Workshop - not sure, the Mechanic seems to repair almost everything straight away for me (solar damage especially, and radiation damage quite often too), and a hold for metals would not be as interesting or useful as the spice room. Might be too overpowered?
Rear Attacker - maybe "reduces the chances" of ships escaping blockade.
Additional Support is interesting but I don't think it would work. I would like another officer but then I wouldn't find the game so hard.
Templar Armour - Provide a bonus that stacks with warrior skill. Good idea.
High end escape shuttle is probably too much for this game. See the other thread.
Capacity Adjustments is too much. Ditto Enhanced Pursuit. Is your favourite class Bounty Hunter? They already have advantages.
Attack modifications is too much. Way too much.
Emergency Room - interesting idea. Bonuses would have to be of the order of 10% not to be too powerful. I like it.
Photovoltaic hull - Excellent. Yes please. Maybe not reduced fuel consumption for landings.
Torpedo Defense System - pretty good idea. I wouldn't get it myself, but could be intersting. I would support its inclusion.
Supercomputer is way too powerful. It removes too much from the gameplay.
Cache storage pods - too difficult to track? - which cargoes were stored when you were flying that particular ship? Not sure if do-able.
Privateers- less effective and a different focus for the bonus compared to Shalun Mercenaries. Could be good.
Cory - how about including a couple of these as those "future upgrade unlocks"?
Starfixer - very thoughtful and creative!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 18:16:10 GMT -5
Wow. Talk about a detailed explanation. Thank you for your feedback an Ill change/modify some of then to be better.
Mechanic Workshop - I agree that the mechanic does a good job preventing/repairing damage at the same time of an accident. However, when there's already preexisting damage before the mechanic repairs, I notice no difference. For example, if I already have 2 sails and 3 engines damaged, and then a notifiaton comes up saying "the mechanic repaired damage to ship", I notice almost no diference when I check the ship's stats in the status. Mechanic Workshop would increase the reapirs for a more noticable difference, and give the crew the ability to repair the ship in-fight even without the mecanic officer (although the mechanic with this upgrade would provide bigger repairs)
Rear Attackers - there currently aren't any upgrades that increase blockade. Blockades are used by many in solar wars. An upgrade designed to increase the blockade action might be useful.It woud increase chance of sucessful blockade by preventing ship from escaping it, as well as ineasing revenue as rear attackers would make the ship more fearsome and allow the captain to force a higher pay.
Additional Support - I understand that an upgrade which would allow 4 officers enstead of 3 would be a major advantage. This is why I made the "-30 cargo" penalty to balance it out. Maybe Ill increase the penalty to "-30 crew or "-20 crew and cargo" to make it more balanced.
Templar Armor - does not "stack" with warrior skill (warrior skil does not increase bonus). The upgrade increases the actual warrior skill, which "stacks" with the templar officer. The warrior skill increases more when fighting aliens, as templars are specialists in that (Templar Assault).
Capacity Adjustments and attack modifications I understand might be too powerful. Prehaps Ill change them or just remove them
Enhanced pursuit would not increase sails and engines period as that would be too powerful. It would only increase sails and engines when pursuing bounty targets. For bounty/military or pirate encounters that turn hostile, the engines and sails would not increase, nor woud it increase if you were atacking merchats/smugglers fr goods, xp, or rep. This in my oppinion makes the upgrade not too powerful. Plus there's only upgrades that stacks with pilot. I personally would want an upgrade that would stack with the BH, even if he already has his own advantages.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 19:17:27 GMT -5
Photo Hull - landings sometimes consume a lot of water fuel. This is why id like to have landings included in the photo hull as part of the fuel consumption bonus. The 2 additional hull points balance it as more hull would equal less pilot and stealth.
Supercompter - I understand that trade embargoes are part of the ST experience and an upgrade that would take that away would be too powerful. I'll change it to make it more balanced.
Cache storage pods - Ill provide a detailed exlantion on how it would work.
Privateers - Don't know what you mean by less effective. This upgrade provides different bonuses than mercenares, neither is more or less effective then the other. Mercanaries provides a bonus that would be equal to a larger crew (each mercenary is worth 2.65 crew) and pivateers would provide a bonus that would be equal to more weapons on hold (each priateer would be worth 1 crew plus 1 weapon). Mercanaries are Type III, meaning bonus for zero range, but sometimes the short to zero range transition costs more crew than the duels once at zer range. Privaters are Type II, not III, and only focus on the transitions.
There wouldn't be room for all of these upgrades to be award unlockable. Some would have to be award locked and some automaticly available. Or some new awards would need to be created.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2012 22:47:27 GMT -5
Made some modifications to make the overpowered upgrades more balanced. Also added 2 new upgrades in replacement with 2 that I deleted. Attachments:
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Post by phantombudgie on Jul 18, 2012 15:04:15 GMT -5
Wow. Talk about a detailed explanation. Thank you for your feedback an Ill change/modify some of then to be better. You did ask  Mechanic Workshop - I agree that the mechanic does a good job preventing/repairing damage at the same time of an accident. However, when there's already preexisting damage before the mechanic repairs, I notice no difference. For example, if I already have 2 sails and 3 engines damaged, and then a notifiaton comes up saying "the mechanic repaired damage to ship", I notice almost no diference when I check the ship's stats in the status. Mechanic Workshop would increase the reapirs for a more noticable difference, and give the crew the ability to repair the ship in-fight even without the mecanic officer (although the mechanic with this upgrade would provide bigger repairs) It is indeed a rare day when the mechanic does these extra repairs, and it does only fix one solar sail at a time, but along with the instant solar-damage repairs, this is so much better than not having a mechanic! I personally believe that even more deep-space reapirs than this would be too much, but I await others' feedback and opinions. For repairing during battle, it would have to be minor repairs only, say 1 engine per two turns or so, or it would be too unfair and perhaps unrealistic. But that might just be enough in a tough fight to get you through...  Rear Attackers - there currently aren't any upgrades that increase blockade. Blockades are used by many in solar wars. An upgrade designed to increase the blockade action might be useful.It woud increase chance of sucessful blockade by preventing ship from escaping it, as well as ineasing revenue as rear attackers would make the ship more fearsome and allow the captain to force a higher pay. Your text in the document still says "prevents all escapes" rather than "increases the action." 10% Higher pay per capture would also be good. Additional Support - I understand that an upgrade which would allow 4 officers enstead of 3 would be a major advantage. This is why I made the "-30 cargo" penalty to balance it out. Maybe Ill increase the penalty to "-30 crew or "-20 crew and cargo" to make it more balanced. Just Buying the Omega (or Slayarz) Cruser, or another capital ship would still feel minimal impact from these penalties. Other more general penalties (maybe all officers are only 85% as effective? I don't know) would be better. Templar Armor - does not "stack" with warrior skill (warrior skil does not increase bonus). The upgrade increases the actual warrior skill, which "stacks" with the templar officer. The warrior skill increases more when fighting aliens, as templars are specialists in that (Templar Assault). Sorry, my misunderstanding. Enhanced pursuit would not increase sails and engines period as that would be too powerful. It would only increase sails and engines when pursuing bounty targets. For bounty/military or pirate encounters that turn hostile, the engines and sails would not increase, nor woud it increase if you were atacking merchats/smugglers fr goods, xp, or rep. This in my oppinion makes the upgrade not too powerful. Plus there's only upgrades that stacks with pilot. I personally would want an upgrade that would stack with the BH, even if he already has his own advantages. I think the unique surveillance ability is already enough, but that's just me. I wait for more feedback from others on this. |
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Post by phantombudgie on Jul 18, 2012 15:15:56 GMT -5
Photo Hull - landings sometimes consume a lot of water fuel. This is why id like to have landings included in the photo hull as part of the fuel consumption bonus. The 2 additional hull points balance it as more hull would equal less pilot and stealth. Photovoltaics are less effective in atmospheres - this is just a realism thing - and besides, you need to leave some challenges! Supercompter - I understand that trade embargoes are part of the ST experience and an upgrade that would take that away would be too powerful. I'll change it to make it more balanced. Your new suggestion goes some way to restoring the balance. I don't know how this would work out so I will wait for help from wiser minds on this. Cache storage pods - Ill provide a detailed exlantion on how it would work. It is a good idea, but up to Cory if it can be done. Privateers - Don't know what you mean by less effective. This upgrade provides different bonuses than mercenares, neither is more or less effective then the other. Mercanaries provides a bonus that would be equal to a larger crew (each mercenary is worth 2.65 crew) and pivateers would provide a bonus that would be equal to more weapons on hold (each priateer would be worth 1 crew plus 1 weapon). Mercanaries are Type III, meaning bonus for zero range, but sometimes the short to zero range transition costs more crew than the duels once at zer range. Privaters are Type II, not III, and only focus on the transitions. My lack of clarity - I meant one Privateer is less effective than one Shalun Mercenary (1 crew + 1 weapon < 2.35 crew?). I support this anyhow. There wouldn't be room for all of these upgrades to be award unlockable. Some would have to be award locked and some automaticly available. Or some new awards would need to be created. I only suggested some of them! Overall I think this is good work, and many of them could end up in the game if others think they are good. There is certainly the implication that there iss room for several upgrades with all the achievements that don't unlock anything yet! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2012 17:16:25 GMT -5
Mechanic Workshop - it would only increase repairs during deep space flight and in wild zones, not during combat. Rear attackers - will clarify this in the description that its blockade success rate increase and higher pay bonus Additional Support - the omega cruiser has 180 crew and 90 hold. -20 crew would not be a big deal, but -20 cargo from 90 to 70 is a big deal. Ill wait for others' oppinions in this. Bounty Hunter Officer - does not provide surveilence ability. That is the profession, not the officer. And the additional effect would only be with enhanced pursuit installed. Its just like pilot officer increases pilot/stealth, but the sail command probe and advanced bridge has additional bonuses with the pilot officer on board. Photo Hull - Let's wait for others' oppinions on this. Privateers/Weapons vs. Crew - 1 crew plus 1 weapon is not less effective than 2.65 crew and zero weapons. Ive destroyed people in boarding with crew 50 over mine because i had many more weapons. I have also had more damage than normal from boarding because my opponent had alot of weapons. More weapons are in my oppnion more effective than more crew, which is why its a Type II upgrade and not Type III to make the upgrade more balanced. I hope others give their feedback also so I can make more changes to make the upgrades better. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2012 2:18:07 GMT -5
Okay, made more modifications. This is the final copy of the upgrades list I made-up. I was also thinking of a new upgrade Type: Avoinics. This is becuase there is currently no upgrade catagory that deals with the technology of the ship (computer, surveilence cameras, radar system) which is just as important as the weapontry and capacity adjustments (more crew cargo engines sails) and would further increase the limits Some of the upgrades on the list are avonics/technology upgrades. Attachments:
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 21, 2012 9:13:23 GMT -5
Computers, Thinking Machines, Avaionics, AI and other things that replace the mind of man are illegal and banned under the Law of Shalun.
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Post by Cory Trese on Jul 21, 2012 9:17:23 GMT -5
I like "Privateers" "Spice Cabinet" "Luxury Chamber" "High End Escape Shuttle" I am neutral on "Mechanic's Workshop" and "Templar Armor" Templar Armor is called Leviathan Armor and already exists as an upgrade. Maybe it should stack with the Templar Officer? |
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