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Post by strega on Feb 21, 2011 20:48:29 GMT -5
I have noticed when two factions are in an alliance, say the De Valtos and the Cadar, and you carry out a successful contract for one of the members against any other faction including independents, regardless of other conflicts, you lose ranks in the other faction of the alliance.
So if I carry out a successful mission for the Cadar, I will automatically lose a rank with De Valtos, even if it is against a common enemy. A bit counterintuitive for two factions in an all out alliance.
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Post by slayernz on Feb 21, 2011 20:58:03 GMT -5
Are there any other conflicts in play? It's definitely weird that you have problems with missions against independents, but sometimes you get the situation:
Cadar allied with De Valtos
De Valtos allied with Steel Song.
When you do a mission for Cadar against Steel Song, you can get negative rep for De Valtos.
Also, what version/build of ST are you using?
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Post by cynik on Feb 22, 2011 2:42:06 GMT -5
I've also noticed rank lose after completing a contract against Independents.
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Post by strega on Feb 22, 2011 5:55:33 GMT -5
I am running 3.4.9 elite build.
I experience the problem even if there are no other conflicts in play except the alliance. Does it make a difference if I am rank 18 with all the parties involved? It gets expensive getting that one rank back all the time.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 22, 2011 14:10:00 GMT -5
This thread contains a lot of confusion. I'm going to try to help clear it up, and hopefully we can talk about the Faction system directly instead of game's function as "problems." =) The game is currently not designed to protect or advance the player strategy of "friendly with everyone." If that is how you like to play, I am not going to tell you that you're wrong. However I will explain that the game is about a life and death struggle between space nations in a century long struggle for survival. Alliances create a reciprocal relationship between the two Factions. For every Reputation point lost to a Faction Alliance penalty, there are 1.25 Faction points available from a Faction Alliance bonus. slayernz -- I think what happened with the independents they mention is that it was a Traitor Contract and the toast was either missed or ignored. The Captain may also not have a First Mate which will help reduce Traitor Missions for the Captain's native Faction. cynik -- Taking contracts against Independents is often a cover story told by the hiring Prince or Crime Boss. "Sure, they're Independents shouldn't give you any trouble." If you show up and blow up some Independent ships there is a GOOD chance that some Faction members were on board or that the ship was actually a disguised Faction ship. The Political Officer and the First Mate reduce the % of these Contracts. If the Captain is really concerned about knowing who to attack, he should Reject Contract when offered a hit against an Independent. strega -- If you are Rank 18 with all parties involved in a Contract you are guaranteed to loose Rank. Working against one Nation as a secret agent of the other Nation should (IMO) reduce your Rank to 0 but the game only demotes the Captain one Rank because people said the old system was too harsh. Example: The Captain is a five star General for the US and for Russia. While in the US he blows up a Russian battleship while driving his French nuclear submarine. When he returns to Russia he finds that he has been demoted to a 4 star General. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 22, 2011 15:08:27 GMT -5
cynik -- I will go check and see if I can find any bugs with the Independent contracts. Maybe there is a bug -- the other stuff in this thread I think I can explain but I'm going to go double check a few things to make sure that it isn't mis-categorizing the Contract somehow.
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Post by cynik on Feb 22, 2011 15:11:37 GMT -5
I hired today a Political Officer, now I now why i lost rank and reputation while working against Independents  . These guys who gave me those contracts are sneaky little bastards! |
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Post by oldalchemist on Feb 22, 2011 15:19:28 GMT -5
Can you even hold active military rank for more than one nation?
I thought of faction rank as a bit more like an approval rating for a contractor that the faction knows is allowed to freelance. Maybe you should only be allowed to hold rank with one faction at a time, at least for Military Officers.
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Post by slayernz on Feb 22, 2011 17:32:25 GMT -5
The old Sid Meiers Pirates game allowed you to hold rank with all of the different nations, and you were still allowed to do the piracy thing, so yeah, in the future or past, you can be rewarded by multiple nations.
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Post by strega on Feb 22, 2011 18:14:04 GMT -5
I understand your example Cory, but if the US and Russia are in an alliance and both at war with Germany (in my game it is solar war and a trade war) and I sink a German Battleship (merchant ship in game) while under the US flag, why do I still get harsh treatment from Russia? Shouldn't I get both rewards for their respective "wars" as well as honoring the alliance? That is the problem I am experiencing with alliances. I do get the rep increases though, just a rank lost with the other faction for breaking an oath. If it is part of the design to realistically only hold military ranks in one faction then I'll accept that as an answer.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 25, 2011 0:01:05 GMT -5
strega: That is the intent of the code. However, your example clearly illustrate the issue I was missing. The inter-play between multiple Conflicts and Alliances does appear to miss some potentially subtleties. I have added a more careful examination to my list of to - do items. It may be solvable with a few "if in alliance but also in war w/" type alternate logic paths. If so, I'm all for improving it because I think it may cause common confusion.
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Post by oldalchemist on Feb 25, 2011 9:55:58 GMT -5
A political officer ought to report what caused recent faction changes if you ask her for a report.
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Post by jameskuyper on Jun 7, 2011 8:42:11 GMT -5
The game is currently not designed to protect or advance the player strategy of "friendly with everyone." If that is how you like to play, I am not going to tell you that you're wrong. I understand that. However, there's an award available for achieving a reputation of 10 with all six factions. I presume that it's actually possible to win this award, though it may be difficult to do so. It's easy to generate reputation with one faction without angering anyone else off, by trading licensed goods, but only if you've got six trade permits. However, getting those permits requires that you get a good reputation with all six factions. It seems to me that earning that award, or even simply getting those six permits, requires careful strategy and a good understanding of how Reputation may be earned or lost. In particular, it's important to learn how you can can gain reputation with one faction without incurring a comparable reduction of your reputation with other factions. Some of your other comments down below make me doubt the feasibility of doing so. Alliances create a reciprocal relationship between the two Factions. For every Reputation point lost to a Faction Alliance penalty, there are 1.25 Faction points available from a Faction Alliance bonus. What little description there is in the Player's Guide about Faction Aliances is about penalties for attacking a Faction's ally. There's no description of faction bonuses . How do they work? cynik -- Taking contracts against Independents is often a cover story told by the hiring Prince or Crime Boss. "Sure, they're Independents shouldn't give you any trouble." If you show up and blow up some Independent ships there is a GOOD chance that some Faction members were on board or that the ship was actually a disguised Faction ship. If you accept a contract from an independent, who is actually acting as an agent for one of the factions, do you loose reputation with that faction, if you fail to complete it? Do you gain reputation with that faction by completing the contract? If you accept a contract against an independent, but the real opponent is one of the factions, will ships from that faction be trying to interfere with your fulfillment of the contract? Do you loose reputation with that faction as a result of filling the contract? strega -- If you are Rank 18 with all parties involved in a Contract you are guaranteed to loose Rank. Working against one Nation as a secret agent of the other Nation should (IMO) reduce your Rank to 0 but the game only demotes the Captain one Rank because people said the old system was too harsh. Your comment that he is guaranteed to loose rank confuses me. Assassination and Bounty Hunter contracts inherently require you to do something that will anger the target of the contract. However, most of the other contracts are for covert operations; if you don't get caught while fulfilling one of those contracts, I would expect the target Faction to be unaware of the fact that you have worked against them. Do you still lose reputation with the target faction, even if you don't get caught? I'm not sure about Blockade contracts. Do they inherently anger the target, or is it only the actions you take against target ships during the blockade that make them angry at you? |
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Post by HateSolstice on Jun 7, 2011 12:25:24 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, Cory, I've been having this exact same issue with my alliances. For example, Cadar and Rychart were in an alliance, Cadar was in a solar war with Javat, and I went and blockaded some Javat planets(yes, I was a Cadar military officer). After just one successful combat, I lost rank with Cadar which made no sense, and Rychart had no interest in Javat one way or the other. I still lost rep with Rychart, which I didn't understand since there was no conflict with them.
This tells me something is a little off.
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. These guys who gave me those contracts are sneaky little bastards!