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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 4, 2013 1:52:28 GMT -5
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Post by fallen on Apr 4, 2013 11:02:16 GMT -5
I would love feedback from everyone about the new tutorial. Please try to wear your "I've never played TA before" glasses!
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Post by contributor on Apr 4, 2013 13:38:10 GMT -5
I'll check it out as soon as I can get the update from Amazon
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ncaoa
Templar
Getting killed by Deathkin. Again.
Posts: 972 
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Post by ncaoa on Apr 4, 2013 19:15:13 GMT -5
Those glasses are shattered and covered in bits of blood, flesh and shattered carapace.  |
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Post by xdesperado on Apr 4, 2013 19:29:37 GMT -5
Okay started a new squad on Brutal to play the new Tutorial Campaign.
Chose Chaplain for Captain as usual.
In my opinion this is way to tough for a tutorial campaign, at least on brutal setting.
The fact that many of the Xenos require multiple shots to kill and that your Templars start with horrible melee attacks is tough. That coupled with, at least on brutal, swarming hordes of Xenos and rather large maps with very dispersed objective locations and its very hard to survive intact.
Fairly limited Honor awards means accepting losses in the squad and then replacing them unfeasible. Buying Ammo Kits and Technologist kits helps but still requires a good bit of luck to actually survive.
Again this is just my experience so far on brutal. Not sure if you can play the Tutorial campaign with non tutorial squads or abort mid campaign with tutorial squad and redo it, but this is definitely one of the hardest campaigns I've played. The basic equipment and lack of XP make it particularly challenging.
Still need to complete the final level. Found on my last attempt that the Vetran Soldiers at least can't destroy the eggs with their fists but have to shoot them.
My recommendation, at least for this tutorial campaign is that the Xenos and eggs be easier to kill or destroy. Use lower types like in the easy campaigns.
As is I'm afraid new players who jump in, at least on brutal, may get frustrated by the experience and lose interest in the game.
You want new players to feel some of the challenge the game provides, but slaughtering their squads without sufficient rewards to replace losses isn't the way to do that in my opinion.
This should be a learning experience for new players, not an extreme challenge for veteran players.
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Post by johndramey on Apr 4, 2013 19:54:50 GMT -5
I'll give the tutorial a stroll later on and report back on what I think as well.
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Post by fallen on Apr 4, 2013 20:04:04 GMT -5
It would be great if people could play not on brutal!
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Post by fallen on Apr 4, 2013 20:11:54 GMT -5
xdesperado - Thanks for the quick feedback. You're awesome! There are only certain things I can do if you pick the Brutal difficulty setting You're asking for it, and I don't want to shift the level difficulty down too much or it could / would make it a joke on Easy / Normal. I'd love feedback on how people find it on Normal and Hard! I do see the points about: 1) There should be more than 4 in your squad so you have an easy replacement if someone goes down. 2) The Honor values for the levels are too low and not fun. You never really get to buy much. 3) You should now be able to play the Tutorial with another squad who wants to come back and try it. As a beginning campaign, you're right, its a bit too much! 4) I can agree that the eggs should be weaker. Those are just my thoughts! Happy to hear more feedback from others and adjust if everyone agrees with xdesperado. But, one of the key tenants of Trese Brothers games is having a real difficulty scale ... Brutal is exactly that. But, I hope that with the 4 above changes, it will be more fun / easy anyway. #TA-1117
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Post by Cory Trese on Apr 4, 2013 20:14:01 GMT -5
We could eliminate that difficulty setting from the tutorial squad? Would that fix it?
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Post by xdesperado on Apr 4, 2013 20:31:23 GMT -5
fallen thanks for the response and I will give it a try again on a lower difficulty to see how that goes. Just my own opinion here again, but like the Trese Brothers many gamers enjoy a very challenging game. Because of that those sorts will automatically go for the hardest difficulty setting immediately. More casual players will be more likely to select lower difficulty levels, however they will also be less tolerant of what they may percieve as being too difficult a game. I can think of a few PS3 and PC games that had issues with being so incredibly hard even on the easiest settings that only diehard gamers or those who couldn't find more accessible entries for a given type of game stuck with them. Didn't make them bad games, just limited their market. Finding that fine balance between providing a real challenge for hard core types and making it accessible and friendly for the more casual gamers is real challenge. That said I think TB has done a pretty good job of it with ST and CK, so have little doubt you'll find the same balance in TA as the game continues to mature. 
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Post by xdesperado on Apr 4, 2013 20:39:46 GMT -5
We could eliminate that difficulty setting from the tutorial squad? Would that fix it? I wouldn't recommend limiting what difficulty a player can select for the tutorial unless you just make it a single difficulty and can't use that squad for other campaigns. i.e. make it a true tutorial that is only there to teach new players the game mechanics and concepts. By the way I really do like the campaign. Compared to some of the others it has a much better overall flow to its levels where you can see a logical progression to the levels and a final goal to the campaign. |
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Post by fallen on Apr 4, 2013 20:44:28 GMT -5
xdesperado - thanks for the feedback. I am glad you enjoy it aside from concerns about difficulty. I will make some tweaks for the next release and see if it is better aligned!
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Post by johndramey on Apr 4, 2013 21:18:37 GMT -5
Well, I haven't gone through the tutorial yet, but I just wanted to toss my 2 cents into this conversation.
I think that the tutorial should be balanced around play at "normal." Most players will start their first game in any given situation at the "normal" level and adjust from there, it's just the smart way to do things. I really doubt that players will start the tutorial at brutal because, well, that's just asking for trouble.
I'm not saying that you are weird or wrong, xdesperado, just that your play style is more niche and not the norm when it comes to players. I, too, tend to start up games at the hardest difficulty. I just know that most of the people I know tend towards less sadistic difficulty levels and tend to not even move up to the hardest difficulty level.
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Post by fallen on Apr 4, 2013 22:06:34 GMT -5
Hey team! You guys are awesome for all the feedback!
I just updated the intro paragraph on the market pages for Templar Assault. Feedback?
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Post by slayernz on Apr 4, 2013 22:20:25 GMT -5
<Newbie Hat> (It's a fine plumed rychart hat of course)
Playing the first tutorial mission. Decided that I would much rather see the guide be more in-mission than in-briefing. Rather than outlining all of the things you can do in the briefing, have the speech bubbles placed on tiles ahead of your units. When you first start, you get dialog boxes outlining the general move forward thing.
When you get to the first intersection, you get a dialog box explaining how to turn left or right.
On the first encounter, another dialog appears explaining exactly what to do in combat, etc.
As a newbie, I much prefer seeing instructions as I am playing, rather than in the briefing when I don't know what I am doing. All the PC games that I play follow this more-interactive method of teaching.
</Newbie Hat>
Possible bug - are you meant to be able to walk through the door at the end of the "Tutorial - The Abandoned Wraithbone" level? IE, the door on the far right-side of the map looks closed, but you can walk through it.
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