Prologue feedback (with spoilers)

[slayernz]

Just got into Krellin Deeps after making it through the amazing prolog.

Things I really loved:
* The sense of urgency - as much as you really want do explore every nook and cranny (and I did try and do as much as I could), you felt that you were definitely being pursued, especially once the hunds, and the big bad guys appeared at the stairs. Question - is the appearance of the hunds combat, and the boss guys bridge-burning appearance scripted? IE, if I did more exploring, the hunds wouldn't find me sooner?

* I liked the layouts of the keep dungeon and the caverns beneath. There are enough chests to find that yield some juicy goodness for those who are courageous enough to hunt for them.

* The story itself is pretty cool - each of the characters are getting a nice backstory created, obviously each with a dark secret they have yet to share. The bridge burning scene in particular was awesome! AWESOME I tell you!

* The outlander seems to soak a lot more damage now than he used to. That means he is able to be the spear-head that you want him to be.

Things that may need tweaking
* As much as escaping from a dungeon shouldn't be plain sailing, it is on the "ack" side of the balance between cake-walk and ACK!. If it weren't for the fact I've been practicing in earlier Alpha's, I'd have quickly been overwhelmed a number of times. The first time would have been when you have gained your weapons, killed the first group of guards, and are heading north towards the cavern entrance. The hoard of guards that you alert are pretty numerous, and if you don't know what you're doing, it's easy to get surrounded or at least have your characters sustain heavy damage. Strongly advise either reducing the numbers, or providing a recommendation for the squad positioning

* With there being no campfires to use (and that's realistic given you are escaping, and not going on some countryside jaunt), it's easy to run out of SP and HP pretty quickly. It reminds me of my first trip through the Void before I discovered what campfires actually were. Because it's the prologue, it wouldn't hurt to (a) throw lots more potions around? and(b) Provide useful toasts advising what to do when a character's health or spirit level drops too far down

* Some of the initial dialog boxes are too much to take in for a new player. I know how important it is to get people up to speed, but it's too much to read and take in straight off the cuff. Instead, maybe the first time you go into your "talent" button, the descriptions of how to manage the talents is bought up, and same with going into your inventory and the like.

* It would be good for at least the initial encounters against the guards that you heavily weight the dice to roll in favor of the party getting the initiative. In the first encounter, I got my equipment, and the guards burst in. Because my thief was closest, she almost lost all of her HP before I was able to act. No fun for a person just starting out.

* There are a few minor spelling/grammar mistakes - happy to work with you directly on these if that's possible.


Overall though, it was a fantastic start to the game, and the Krellin Deeps should be an awesome next chapter.

[fallen]

slayernz - thanks for the detailed feedback. Glad you enjoyed the first section of the Prologue!

1) fixed the first combat with guards so that you get your turn. It is a lot easier, but ... who wants to get killed on the first turn?
2) What is ACK?
3) There are places where if you dwaddle too long or go to deep off track, you can cause more enemies to appear. Really glad that the sense of urgency came through. That is also a defining reason for no campsites -- that would really cut the urgency. I played through on Normal and it seemed like a good number of potions to me, but I am pretty good at the game. I can look at adding more.
4) Feel free to contact directly about typos - we have already fixed a large number (insure vs. ensure).
5) Glad you enjoyed the bridge! We are working on beefing the whole thing up with more of a sound scape now (opening doors, raging fires, exciting music at the right times) so that should double the fun
6) Slightly reduced the numbers with Thurgrim (1 less spear). The Outlander will shot something about getting behind him.

[slayernz]

Ack is what you say when you're just about to be stomped on by a 60' giant. After being stomped on, you can't really say anything but do often make pretty good squelching noises.

[fallen]

slayernz - ahhhhh, ACK! Comes right after SPLAT!

I toned down another one of the common battle groups and added another mid-way chest with some more SP potions.

I will look at spacing out the <<advice>> a bit more throughout the dungeon instead of springing it all on your right up front. Having it in another font color will also help call the proper attention to the context switch.

[John Robinson]

slayernz fallen

Hi guys; thanks, and enjoyed the posts. My two cents.

1. You can explore as much of the dungeon as you wish. I did a little more until running into more spiders. The Hunds don't trigger the end, that doesn't happen unless you get near the bridge. So you can kill them and keep going However the extra chests don't have a good return versus battle damage. As you know any battle racks up XP, so you could see that as a silver lining towards reaching level 4. For me, after the Hunds I just wanted to get the heck out of there.

2. If there is any change to potion numbers I hope it's SP. This version of the Alpha really made a better player of me. I have never planed my SP usage so closely. I started paying more attention to how many AP a spider would spend to reach the party, retreat one square beyond that limit, then try to kill it with normal weapon attacks. By the way, fallen I took your advice and my Cleric flanks with the hammer at crucial moments then retreats behind the Outlander. She is using less SP and dealing direct damage. Choking dust is awesome and doesn't break the Wizard's piggy bank. Thanks for keeping the cost down on the first few levels of Aimed Shot.

3. Thanks for fixing the first chest bug. In addition I have found a helpful method. After arming I move everybody to the bottom wall of the room, then carefully move up the left side to the door. Position the Outlander, Cleric, and Wizard inside the room for protection and ambush. Now cast pure flame shield on the Thief and very slowly move north to the door. Guards bust in, she takes a couple of hits, and uses her AP to reach the door before they do. Now we wait for them to come to the kill point, spring the trap.

4. Thurgrim. Party resets the ambush at the north door, Thief slowly goes up hallway, casting farsight. She triggers the attack, plays "tag your it", gets inside the room without a scratch, now they die one at a time until big ugly is last, and for me he is a pain in the behind to take out.

Just played the game again to first rest camp. Really looking forward to the new section you added. I'm with the First Cat this is terrific as you know from my PM.

[slayernz]

John Robinson it's definitely an amazing update for the alpha - you can smell the "almost complete" smell and even though I want the alpha to go on forever, i'm looking forward to the full release even more

The SP monitoring is very very important. I've even had the thief using her dagger on occasion because 5 or 6 strikes of that little blade is quite effective with the right enemy. Also, the lower levels of the offensive wizard spells are much more affordable and even firebolt 3 isn't much of a cost all things considered - it's very well balanced and there is more than enough incentive for each class that makes you want to "I want to invest my talent point here and here and here and here and here!"

For Thurgrim, that's how my squad did it but in glommed mode to begin with. as soon as the encounter happened, they all high-tailed it back to the door chokepoint.

[John Robinson]

slayernz

Love those choke points! Ever notice no matter what you do the Hunds attack when you are in a wide open space, and they have allot of room to maneuver? Love the animation on them, they really look meaty and powerful, the motion is very fluid.

[fallen]

1. Potion adds are more SP potions, yep.
2. The first fight will start with your team getting a turn before the monsters 100% of the time now. No fair killing new players in the first 10 seconds of combat they experience on bad luck.
3. We are discussing allowing a Level Up! to restore your SP to full. This would go a long way to make Red Hill beatable without needing to just keep pouring potions into the mix. A very long way I think, but past level 3 or 4, it starts to slow down so it would not far less of a game difference anymore. Thoughts?

[John Robinson]

Nov 25, 2013 2:06:47 GMT -5 fallen said:

3. We are discussing allowing a Level Up! to restore your SP to full. This would go a long way to make Red Hill beatable without needing to just keep pouring potions into the mix. A very long way I think, but past level 3 or 4, it starts to slow down so it would not far less of a game difference anymore. Thoughts?

Do you mean a real level up where we can spend points prior to exit bridge camp? Or, the kind of camp that restores the SP/HP? Given the circumstances, maybe the graphic shouldn't be the usual round campfire, because there's no time to rub two sticks together. What do you think of maybe just turning the center of the camp icon blue to represent a "pool of restoration", sort of like a underground spring, that supplies magic water. 

Edit: I forgot to say Hell Yeah I want a full tank of SP HP!!!

[slayernz]

For 3, it would be great to get HP and SP to maximum on level up ... it happens on lots of other games, and isn't detracting from the difficulty at all. You still can't get your Skills/Attributes/Talent points allocated until you find a camp fire, but it would certainly help Red Hill be a good introduction to the game.

[fallen]

Yes - the suggestion would be that when you hit the Level Up (still in combat, nowhere near a campsite) your SP bar is returned to full. Cory laughs at me too because I don't want to do HP bar too. It would definitely RH be a more sure win.

[Lesleyr]

A full tank of SP for a level up during Red Hill would be welcome. I know a lot of players, my husband for example, who get fed up and give up if they are killed too early.

[fallen]

Thanks all -- it seems like a really natural solution that will not change much in the late game, but make all the difference on any difficulty level in RH! It's on the list. Sounds like we will go with HP / SP, both.

[beuns]

I understand the idea of getting back SP full at level up but...I don't know. From the beginning I feel a sense of realism in the game (sort of since it's heroic-fantasy) and I believe that having something so unrealistic ("well, you see in the middle of a fight with giant spiders I suddenly understood the wave of magic more thoughtfully and then I was able to cast this fire on my enemies"...) could be a little off the track.
Maybe it's just my point of view that is not right, I don't know.

[absimiliard]

Hrmm, "make it easier for new players" vs. "don't harsh my suspension of disbelief".

Tough choice. I value the suspension of disbelief highly, and yet it did take some effort towards conserving SP in order to make it through the run to the first resting point. Truth is it's a long run and if I didn't already know the game and how to conserve SP I might not have made it, so there is a real issue there. But beuns has a point, the current feel of magic would make restoring SP mid-fight a bit odd, you could swing it with more color-text but you don't really have time to deliver said color-text that early in the game given that you're delivering tutorial text during the early game.

I'd go with just adding in a few more SP potions. The real challenge is just in managing SP to last out the whole run, and with everyone at level 1 those costs aren't terribly high, a few extra potions might solve the issue. (though how you stopped really experienced players from stockpiling is beyond me, not that I'm sure you should anyway)

Just my $.02.

-abs