Relationship between Attributes and Skills

[gyprock]

I appreciate this is a noob question and I have scoured these forums looking for answer to no avail. ( I have read this startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/2569/xp-allocation XP Allocation by Gravling and startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/3915/effect-attributes-skills also by Gravling.)

Under Attributes there is Body Strength Dexterity Mind Intel and Perception but then under Skills there is a further breakdown of Strength Dex,Intel and Percep. So it appears, to me, that there are 2 ways to boost Strength Dexterity Intel and Perception: either by Attributes or Skills.

Would someone be so kind as to explain the relationship between Skills and Attributes? Please be gentle.

Thanks.

[Slide87]

Hi man i made copy and paste from Rules section of CK (in the game main menu, under your currently PC faces, near to Options button), i hope it will make you understand the relationship (pratically, raising a skill is highly related to its attribute)

---------
Raising Attributes

Attributes are split into two groups–Physical and Mental. Physical includes the key attribute Body, and the Strength and Dexterity attributes. Mental includes the key attribute Mind, and the Perception and Intelligence attributes. You cannot raise the value of any attribute higher than the rating of the attribute’s key attribute (Perception cannot be higher than Mind).The cost of raising a key attribute (Mind or Body) is as follows:

XP Cost = Current Key Attribute Rating x 3

The cost of raising a non-key attribute (Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, or Perception) is as follows:

XP Cost = (Sum of Attribute Ratings of other Two Attributes) x 2

For example, if Strength = 3, Body = 5, Dexterity = 5, then raising Strength to 4 costs (5 + 5) x 2 = 20 XP. However, raising your Dexterity to 6 costs (3 + 5) x 2 = 16 XP. Characters who attempt to raise all of their attributes will pay higher experience as opposed to characters who are willing to focus on one or two attributes. Training for sheer strength is easier than trying to train for muscular power and speed and coordination.

Raising Skills

The eight skills are organized into categories under the four attributes, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Perception.Athletics and Brawling are under Strength.Stealth and Firearms are under Dexterity.Electronics and Hacking are under Intelligence.Negotiate and Intimidate are under Perception.The cost of raising a skill is based on its relationship to its attribute. You will find it easier to raise a skill if its rating is less than its attribute. If your physical Strength is high, you will find it easier to raise your Brawling. If your skill in Brawling begins to surpass the strength which supports it, more XP is required to raise it. The following equations determine the cost of raising a skill.
IF (Skill < Attribute) THEN XP Cost = Skill Rating + 1
IF (Skill >= Attribute) THEN XP Cost = (Skill Rating + 1) x 2
IF (Skill >= Attribute x 2) THEN XP Cost = (Skill Rating + 1) x3

Therefore, if your Brawling = 3 and Strength = 5, then raising Brawling to 4 costs (3 + 1) = 4 XP. Raising Brawling to 7 would cost (7 + 1) x 2 = 15 XP. Raising Brawling to 12 would cost (12 + 1) x 3 = 39 XP. Characters who focus on both attributes and skills in which they are interested in will advance quickest. Investing experience in skills that fall under your weaker attributes will be costly.
--------------

[fallen]

Wow, great response. Exalt! gyprock - let us know if there are more questions.

[gyprock]

Thanks Slide87 for your reply.
Am I correct in saying that it is Skills that do the work/damage and Attributes determine the XP cost of raising the Skills?

A couple of related questions. Sometimes the font on the Skills buttons are either in bold or italics. What is the significance of this?
Also what is the number in []?    Eg   Brawling 5 to 6 (18XP)[6]. What does the [6] refer to?

Thanks again,
Gypo

[fallen]

gyprock - you'll find that both Attributes and Skills are involved in damage, tests, accuracy, combat, Encounters, hacking etc.

The [6] refers to the value with your cyberware.

[grävling]

Jan 2, 2014 16:05:17 GMT -5 gyprock said:

Thanks Slide87 for your reply.
Am I correct in saying that it is Skills that do the work/damage and Attributes determine the XP cost of raising the Skills?

A couple of related questions. Sometimes the font on the Skills buttons are either in bold or italics. What is the significance of this?
Also what is the number in []?    Eg   Brawling 5 to 6 (18XP)[6]. What does the [6] refer to?

Thanks again,
Gypo

You have the wrong idea.

Skills can, in the game, be more or less swapped out by gear. So you get a rifle with great accuracy (say the mk251 bounty from Back Bay Importers in Old Kenmore) to compensate for your rotten firearms skill. Or you get a Taser Glove from the same place, with 4 attacks at a time (speed 4) to compensate for your rotten brawling skills. Or you can buy fairly cheap cyberware to boost skills, all over town.

Don't get the wrong idea about this, it is nice to have good skills, but it is essential for the new knight to work on attributes.

There are 4 of these -- Int Dex Per and Strength. Don't worry about Strength too much -- you mostly want to boost it because you want to boost athletics and/or brawling and you don't want to have to pay 2x or 3x as much in xp to get your increase. Worry about Int Per and Dex all the time.


This is because the number of Action Points you get in a fight is 3 + (dex + per + int)/2 (rounded down) + maybe some extra if you are jacked up on drugs to MP 9 or more. So early knights need to pile their XP into getting more AP, which means ignoring skills (except for negotiate to get the cost of everything working more in your favour (cheaper to buy, more expensive to earn and sell) and everybody wants 3 points of brawling even Female 2 non-brawlers for the defensive value).

Only after you have what you consider a comfortable amount of AP should you worry too much about the other skills.

Does this make sense? write if it doesn't.

Grävling

[grävling]

Skills in bold are at the cheap rate -- for every point you want to increase it costs a point of xp. So to raise from 3 to 4, costs you 4.
In Italics you will be paying 2x or 3x this -- So to raise from 3 to 4 costs 8 or 12.

To get the cheap rate you need to raise the attribute that the skill is related to.

the skill X[Y] notation is:
X is what you have due to training. Y is the amount you have due to some implant you are wearing. So if you have +1 hacking due to your
dataport, and you raise your hacking skill to 5, you will see that your skill is 5[6].

Some implants just set your skill level to a particular amount. So even if you raise your athletics to 9, if you have one of those
(gives you athletics of 6) implants, all you will see is 6.

I am very tired. Hope I explained this ok.

[gyprock]

Hi All,
Thank you for your replies.
I think its all coming together now.
I have maxed out Body and Dexterity,Mind on 7, Int and Per on 5 and 6. I get the impression that I am past the tough stage. I am now just working towards maxing out everything.

[grävling]

Jan 9, 2014 18:52:55 GMT -5 gyprock said:

Hi All,
Thank you for your replies.
I think its all coming together now.
I have maxed out Body and Dexterity,Mind on 7, Int and Per on 5 and 6. I get the impression that I am past the tough stage. I am now just working towards maxing out everything.

Yes, it is a lot earlier when things are very tough. And new knights tend to die because they work on firearms like crazy and still have AP of only 5, because they are unaware that this is the wrong way to grow a knight, survival-wise.