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Post by fallen on Aug 8, 2014 16:52:55 GMT -5
My read on Natural Mastery matches John Robinson. All Standard Attack Dice. |
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 8, 2014 17:06:26 GMT -5
fallenWarders Shield, Quicksilver Defense, and Shield of Cortias all three have +Parry and +Dodge in their Talent description. So the "bonuses from gear / buffs" is getting me confused. Edit: Are there any strong defense dice provided by a specific Talent "buff" ? Are "Self Buffs" stronger than group buffs? I should have bought 60 watt bulbs for my brain instead of those cheap 40 watts!  p.s. fallen thanks for helping on the Thundering Blades, Flanking unity, I am planning a new group and had it backwards.
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Post by tenbsmith on Aug 8, 2014 20:12:28 GMT -5
Here's a concrete example we can use to explore John's question about talents with +Parry and +Dodge.
Warder's Shield 5 gives +3 Parry and +5 Dodge, but how does that play out?
-For ranged/magic defense, it seems logical that the dodge buff would provide 5 strong dice.
-For melee defense it seems logical the parry buff would provide 3 strong dice.
-Does the Dodge buff contribute only to ranged/magic defense? Or does it contribute standard dice to melee defense on top of the strong dice provided by the parry buff?
I've been wondering about that for while.
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Post by algesan on Aug 8, 2014 21:56:10 GMT -5
Per fallen a long time back (January?), NM gives standard dice because it gives weapon skill levels plus regular Accuracy bonuses. One reason why Sweeping beats out Crushing in early going.
On the Parry/Dodge issue. Example: my current Selen has QsD with +7 Parry, +7 Dodge. Using what fallen just posted this gives:
Vs. melee: +7 Strong (Parry) and +7 Standard (Dodge)
Vs. ranged: +7 Strong (Dodge)
Note that the ranged defense gives Strong only for non-base Dodge. The Dodge from your Dex only gives Standard, which is probably why it is displayed (X+Y) on the character sheet.
Hmmm, I just realized that having 2 Armor stops 2 points every time and since it rounds up, 3 Armor will stop 3 points every time since 1+D1 and 2+D1 are 2/3.
Heh, I worry about the streaky nature of the dice. There you are, happily slicing and dicing away, working your way through the mobs and suddenly pops up one that sits there through two rounds of combat with everything either missing or doing single digit damage. The reverse is worse when suddenly five archers spawn, they all hit you twice each and do about the maximum damage you see that kind of archer do.
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Post by fallen on Aug 8, 2014 22:12:47 GMT -5
Warders Shield, Quicksilver Defense, and Shield of Cortias all three have +Parry and +Dodge in their Talent description. Those are all bonuses from Buffs. I hope that helps explain! |
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Post by fallen on Aug 8, 2014 22:23:07 GMT -5
tenbsmith - this is cut and paste from the OP. We have done our very best to make it clear there. I think this answers all of your questions. @alegsan's example looks correct. Strong Dice for Defender - (Melee) Any Parry bonuses from gear/buffs - (Ranged/Magic) Any Dodge bonuses from gear /buffs Standard Dice for Defender - (Melee) Dodge including any Dodge bonuses from gear / buffs
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 9, 2014 0:23:26 GMT -5
On the Parry/Dodge issue. Example: my current Selen has QsD with +7 Parry, +7 Dodge. Using what fallen just posted this gives: Vs. melee: +7 Strong (Parry) and +7 Standard (Dodge) Vs. ranged: +7 Strong (Dodge) Note that the ranged defense gives Strong only for non-base Dodge. The Dodge from your Dex only gives Standard, which is probably why it is displayed (X+Y) on the character sheet. I would like to build on this example a little to help me understand. Quicksilver Defense(4) +7 Parry, +7 Dodge. Vs. melee: +7 Strong (Parry) and +7 Standard (Dodge) Vs. ranged: +7 Strong (Dodge). Now add Warders Shield(1) +1 Parry, +1 Dodge. Vs. melee: + 1 Strong (Parry) and + 1 Standard (Dodge) Vs. ranged: +1 Strong (Dodge). Now add Shield of Cortias(1) +2 Parry, +1 Dodge. Vs. melee: + 2 Strong (Parry) and + 1 Standard (Dodge) Vs. ranged: +1 Strong (Dodge). Total Results: Selen gets; Vs. melee: + 10 Strong (Parry) and + 9 Standard (Dodge) Vs. ranged: +9 Strong (Dodge). I have studied this thread allot over the last several days. If this is the wrong conclusion then it really is silly to keep asking. I do appreciate your attempts to help cut through my confusion. |
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Post by fallen on Aug 9, 2014 0:32:42 GMT -5
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 9, 2014 0:35:04 GMT -5
About time it clicked! Thanks for the help I'm sure glad that's behind me now. |
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Post by crimsonking on Aug 9, 2014 1:49:08 GMT -5
Heh, I worry about the streaky nature of the dice. There you are, happily slicing and dicing away, working your way through the mobs and suddenly pops up one that sits there through two rounds of combat with everything either missing or doing single digit damage. The reverse is worse when suddenly five archers spawn, they all hit you twice each and do about the maximum damage you see that kind of archer do. I found it interesting how random the dice system is and stays even with large pools. However, since large dice pools will have a probability close to a gaussian bell curve changing the odds to your favor will gain you much when you're close to 50% and less when you're far beyond it. You can easily overbuff yourself in one sector, where it becomes useful to buff your other dice pools instead, or damage since damage can never be too high. |
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 9, 2014 17:08:20 GMT -5
Willpower and Resistance
Vincent has a Willpower of 4 is this added to Standard Defensive Dice against Magic attacks?
Vincent has a Resistance of 8 is this added to Strong Defensive Dice vs Magic attacks?
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Post by fallen on Aug 9, 2014 18:03:16 GMT -5
John Robinson - Resistance is used to soak magical damage. Willpower does not appear in the combat dice at all. It reduces the chance of curses sticking to your characters, but does not cause any Strong or Standard dice.
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 9, 2014 18:15:11 GMT -5
Excellent! Thank you. I can't believe after reading this thread so many times I forgot Resistance is soak, sorry about that.
That was really helpful to get the Wisdom Attribute right in my head.
I've been working on something since 10:00 am and nearly screwed it up.
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Post by algesan on Aug 12, 2014 0:08:32 GMT -5
Heh, I worry about the streaky nature of the dice. There you are, happily slicing and dicing away, working your way through the mobs and suddenly pops up one that sits there through two rounds of combat with everything either missing or doing single digit damage. The reverse is worse when suddenly five archers spawn, they all hit you twice each and do about the maximum damage you see that kind of archer do. I found it interesting how random the dice system is and stays even with large pools. However, since large dice pools will have a probability close to a gaussian bell curve changing the odds to your favor will gain you much when you're close to 50% and less when you're far beyond it. You can easily overbuff yourself in one sector, where it becomes useful to buff your other dice pools instead, or damage since damage can never be too high. I'm referring to the issue with computer RNGs getting stuck in streaks. Like when my Neo-esque Selen who rarely takes an arrow from swarms ends up dead, with full buffs on, from five archers. |
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Post by John Robinson on Aug 15, 2014 11:26:53 GMT -5
Standard Defense Dice Question If Selen has a Bow Weapon skill of 16. During combat when using a bow will 16 Standard Defense Dice still be counted or deducted if she is attacked with a melee, ranged weapon or ranged magic attack? How did he get confused this time?! I'm thinking about how a bow has no ability to Parry (Strong D) and Dodge is used as Strong vs Ranged so how could a person fighting with a bow defend themselves in a "Standard" fashion using the Bow Weapon Skill. You might be able to get a lucky block against a sword chop but it is unlikely you could shoot down an incoming arrow. I'm sitting here this morning with my usual glazed eyes, slack jawed disheveled look trying to explain things to myself again. Thanks |
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