Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 25, 2014 10:28:03 GMT -5
Since stacking has been corrected, could we have -AP curses/cursing attacks affect MP in the situation that the AP has been decremented to 1 and spells/attacks which have yet to be used are applied to the monster?
example:
Ratkin archer is already affected by Flash Freeze so his MP/AP are 4/1. Ethereal Anguish would ONLY affect his non-AP statistics as AP can not be decremented to 0.
If cast upon him, could his MP be decremented instead of AP, thereby hampering him?
From what I understand MP are effectively restricted use AP(movement only action points.)
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Post by fallen on Feb 25, 2014 10:42:13 GMT -5
Swami - curses which are -AP only reduce AP. They do not hamper a monsters ability to use MP. That's not in the cards. That would be a big back-step for the AI in making its fights effective and fun. As a player choosing to use -AP curses, you need to get the right amount on the your team and not seek to overload monsters, then you're burning SP.
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 25, 2014 14:04:09 GMT -5
Ok, doesn't hurt to ask.
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 25, 2014 14:17:32 GMT -5
I am glad we already did all the math and balance testing on this before the alpha, so it never even was a question we had because it was so totally solved in the design.
Glad to have the opportunity to clarify and help everyone understand how carefully this part of the system is put together -- better for everyone to appreciate the nuanced balancing work Andrew has been polishing for the past few months.
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 25, 2014 14:45:47 GMT -5
I am glad we already did all the math and balance testing on this before the alpha, so it never even was a question we had because it was so totally solved in the design. Glad to have the opportunity to clarify and help everyone understand how carefully this part of the system is put together -- better for everyone to appreciate the nuanced balancing work Andrew has been polishing for the past few months. Hey Cory Trese, that is only true if you accept the premise that fallen is balanced!  |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 25, 2014 15:59:14 GMT -5
Oh, he's not -- but I've checked his math, and that, at least, has merit  |
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 25, 2014 16:49:01 GMT -5
Oh, he's not -- but I've checked his math, and that, at least, has merit Ok, I'm willing to concede that even imbalanced people can have balanced equations. |
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Post by Cory Trese on Feb 25, 2014 17:10:04 GMT -5
Oh, he's not -- but I've checked his math, and that, at least, has merit Ok, I'm willing to concede that even imbalanced people can have balanced equations. If Star Traders wasn't proof |
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Post by algesan on Feb 25, 2014 21:51:37 GMT -5
Correction - Different -AP curses will always reduce AP by at least 1.
By what fallen posted above, I read that as a mob with X AP can't be reduced lower than X-1 AP by any single debuff spell unless X=1. I've seen plenty of AP2 mobs reduced to no attacks with parties containing Vince & Kyera.
Which means hitting a 3AP mob with a -3 AP (or bigger) curse will only reduce it to 1AP.
Which leads to a possible "timing" issue when you cast AP debuffs.
3AP mob
-2AP curse A
-1AP curse B
If you cast B then A, then you should get a mob with 1AP : first reduced by 1 to 2AP, then reduced by 1 (since one curse cannot take all AP).
If cast B then A, then mob should be at 0AP because A would get full reduction to 1AP since it isn't reducing the AP below 1. B will simply take the 1 AP left, as it can normally.
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Swami
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Post by Swami on Feb 25, 2014 23:17:08 GMT -5
algesan: Sorry, based on my understanding, that is no longer true. Minimum AP (under current code)is 1. If a mob has 3 AP, you can decrease it's AP to 1 with 1 -2 AP curse, or with 2 -1 AP curses. Even if you cast a -2 AP curse and a -1 AP curse, you will still end up with a 1 AP(for the duration of the curses) mob. I currently don't have anyone who can do a -2 AP curse, so I have not confirmed this. If you do have that ability and can prove me wrong, I am pretty sure Cory Trese and fallen would want to know about this because getting a mob to 0 AP in .23 or later would be a bug.
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Post by fallen on Feb 26, 2014 0:11:11 GMT -5
Minimum AP = 1 for a monster. No number of stack curses can reduce a monster to 0 AP. That is the design, that is how the code works. You're invited to test that in the current code base!
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Post by algesan on Feb 26, 2014 8:34:40 GMT -5
Sure, as soon as I run up a new party, but my Vincent - Selen party did it to 2AP archers the entire way through, so it applied up to .21 or so.
Not the bit about timing of casts since they both had minimum AP debuffs
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Post by fallen on Feb 26, 2014 10:21:13 GMT -5
Yep, there was a bug in ".21 or so" - now fixed.
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Post by algesan on Feb 26, 2014 12:33:38 GMT -5
Okay, tactics change when I start playing that party again. Otherwise...wasn't going to replicate my Vincent - Selen group, Hammer Vraes will get to play with the one of the paladin groups.
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