Vincent attack talents and balance

[Deleted]

Hey fallen, I was wondering if you could comment on overall thoughts for the balance decisions for Vincent's attack talents? I remember a while back that the SP cost for Lightning Spear got lowered. I'm on a run through and I've taken my first point in Energy Storm but looking at the higher level comparison between the three attack talents I'm wondering if I made a mistake.

My bottom line thought right now is damage output (and specifically elemental damage output) of Energy Storm is priced very high in terms of AP and SP.

It makes sense to me that such a powerful and large AOE so early would be expensive but the talents seem to even out at higher levels. Just for reference for others who wander by this thread:

Lightning Spear 10 2/26 62 - 134 Dmg. +15 Accuracy. Can hit up to 10 targets in wedge AOE.

Energy Storm 10 3/64 84 - 146. +13 Accuracy. Can hit up to 9 targets in block AOE.

Elemental Sundering 10 3/102 50 - 142 Lightning Dmg. +11 Accuracy Can hit up to 24 (if you could go that high) targets in hex cloud.

(These stats shamelessly poached from John Robinson and his excellent tables)
Read more: startradersrpg.proboards.com/thread/5977/vincentss-talent-table-shock-therapy#ixzz2yXVxGTVs

I love having the higher minimum damage on Energy Storm but I'm looking more into pairing with Fyona's Holy Strickening. If the Combat thread has the information correct, the minimum damage numbers here all come out in physical damage, right? So if I'm looking for high levels of elemental damage I should look for the larger spreads. Basically, I'm wondering what would move any Vincent player away from Lightning Spear as it's crazy efficient in terms of AP and SP.

Also, the increase of SP cost for Energy Storm goes up much more quickly especially when compared to LS. No single level of LS increases SP more than 3 while Energy Storm bounces around between 6 and 8 SP increases.

Back to my main question though, I know you guys have a formula that balances all these things. What are we paying for with our SP cost for this particular talent? Is it the reliable and classic block AOE and the high minimum damage?

Thanks again in advance for your time and all your hard work into this great game!

[contributor]

I have to agree with this. I've never tried any of Vincent's other attack talents, but I can't imagine why I ever would. Lighting Spear is just so awesome. The difference is especially big when you think of per turn damage. Since LS is 2 AP you can cast it 3x per turn rather than just twice. With three hits you're very likely to do more damage than you would with two of the other curses and you'll still spend less SP. Also LS's "chaining" ability is huge bonus because it allows you to hit enemies beyond certain formations early on. So the other spells need some sort of boost to make them appealing. Maybe more range or some curse like MP reduction.

[John Robinson]

@rearick contributor

Great analysis and very timely. My level 18 Vincent is way behind on attack/damage spells so I need a cost effective
fast boost, otherwise Lightning Spear all the way.

Elemental Sundering is a real SP budget buster. Sitting at Lightning Spear(1) it will take a long time to get some
high damage, but as you said contributor I can cast it 3 times per turn.

Energy Storm does seem like a good middle of the road when combined with a Block curse. The best I can do for a long
time is get one of these 3 Talents up to level 4 or 6. Is a block shaped attack better than a cone?

My curses are block shaped and the cost of Energy Storm is affordable although I'll need to get to E-Storm(4) to get 30-56 dmg.

So what would you guys recommend?

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2014 11:06:44 GMT -5 John Robinson said:

So what would you guys recommend?

I don't think you can really go wrong with any of them. I'll come out and recommend Energy Storm for the following 3 reasons:

1. Block AoE: It fits the curse, genius!
2. Also, I find that the block AoE allows me to hit more of my potential targets more often than the chain AoE of LS as the AIs keep getting smarter.
3. fallen is taking a close look as this talent with some modifications in mind. I imagine those who don't have an Energy Storm Vince build before the changes will be interested in running one after. Why not pump some points in and be able to experience the balance from day one? I also hope to see some SP cost reduction at higher levels.

But caveat emptor, at level 18 you won't see returns from any of these talents for a few levels, this is definitely an investment for the future whichever way you land.

Alternatively, if you're already at level 18 and you haven't boosted any of his attack talents, this might be a great game to give Elemental Sundering a whirl. The devs have noted that Vince becomes less effective with multiple attack talents. Sundering will break the SP bank but in return it gives you the highest values of elemental damage and a crazy big AoE. My dream is to run Vince with each talent and I'm a little jealous that you've been able to hold out to level 18 to choose your's.

If you don't mind my asking John Robinson how have you built Vince so far?

[John Robinson]

Apr 21, 2014 11:28:48 GMT -5 @rearick said:

Apr 21, 2014 11:06:44 GMT -5 John Robinson said:

So what would you guys recommend?

If you don't mind my asking John Robinson how have you built Vince so far?

His build interlocks closely with the rest of the team. I'm preparing a fairly long post that will put most people to sleep.
I think what you choose is just as important as when you choose to increase a talent or skill.

I will be posting the schedule checklist I used later on.  With the recent changes I think Selen has reached perfection.
As a result I'm starting a new game. One hint. Kyera and Vincent have their roles reversed.

[contributor]

I would agree with @rearick and elemental sundering. At level 18 you start gaining talents, really slowly. If you haven't done anything yet I would definitely go for Elemental Sundering. It's the most bang for your buck now and obviously you're not counting on Vincent for a ton of damage.

Otherwise I would still go for LS.